Ship discussion

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on December 4th, 2010, 2:16 pm

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on December 4th, 2010, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There were so many examples of federation vessels only serving civilian purposes during TNG for example: The S.S. Vico (civilian Oberth-Class not under Starfleet) and the Lantree (Miranda-Class, obviously not Starfleet since it only did cargo- and supplyruns) and the later known for being used by the Maquis "supply carriers" which are former federation ships not under Starfleet's use.

You could say, pure federation ships are either civilian vessels and vessels which belong to former federation-independent worlds (theoretically i.e. the Andorians could still use their own ships, just not in Starfleet but under the federation's flag) or old and out-of-commision starfleet vessels.

So Starfleet is federation and Federation is not necessarily Starfleet. I hope anyone who wasn't is now aware of that 



Edit: I think the Saratoga at Wolf 359 was also not Starfleet. Indicated by having families onboard while the only Starfleet vessel with civilian crews is the Galaxy-Class.

posted on December 4th, 2010, 2:21 pm

The Lantree was a slightly confusing one, having a Starfleet registry number and USS abbreviation instead of the civilian SS one, as well as a Starfleet crew while doing a job civilians would be expected to do.

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on December 4th, 2010, 2:23 pm

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on December 4th, 2010, 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Lantree was a slightly confusing one, having a Starfleet registry number and USS abbreviation instead of the civilian SS one, as well as a Starfleet crew while doing a job civilians would be expected to do.

Same goes with the Saratoga from DS9's pilot since the families onboard give me a headache (in terms of plotting they were only there to give Sisko a tragic touch, however it isn't a starfleet-tradition).

posted on December 4th, 2010, 5:33 pm

Just gonna slip this in...

The Phalanx is basically a specialist ship, introduced because the federation is so torp-heavy.  And while it's fun to use (if you have the right attitude about it)  I think it shares too much of a role with the Avalon.  The feds have E2's for long-range destruction of large targets, and Avalons and Phalanxes are both long-range against small targets.  I only ever build the Phalanx when my Avalon build limit is reached.

So what should be done with these two ships to bring diversity to the tech tree?  What difference can we make?  I suggest that the Avalon be made a non-avatar ship (maybe give Mayson's one less fighter) and the Phalanx be Risner's special battleship.  Then give it a sizable damage boost, small cost increase, and lower the cap to 2 or 3.  Perhaps go ahead and make the magnan array single-target and high damage.  This way a Risner player can choose a better option than the Avalon if he's willing to pay for it, but only a few "specialists" can be built before he has to switch to Avalons.

[vonCarstein]

posted on December 4th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Last edited by vonCarstein on December 4th, 2010, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@Tryptic hmm .. for me these ships serve two essentially different roles.. When I'm in trouble when fighting "in the open" so not close to towers and shipyards for repair I use the phalanx sometimes as a hit and run ship because its acutally quick compared to other longrange battleships while the Avalon is more a "look for the big-fight" ship when i have map superiority and want to clean up my enemy because retreating medium-long distance with that thing is impossible.

edit reason: typos

posted on December 5th, 2010, 1:18 am

Thats one possibilty Tryptic. Personaly I'd say add a Federation battleship (a real one) such as the Excalibur class with medium or long rage weapons.


Of course I also think that "battleship"s like the Neghvar shouldnt be short range, but what do I know :p .

Edit: I think the Saratoga at Wolf 359 was also not Starfleet. Indicated by having families onboard while the only Starfleet vessel with civilian crews is the Galaxy-Class.

Most of the people onboard the saratoga were in starfleet uniforms, that would imply it's a starfleet ship.

Odds are it was just (due to it's age) a patrol craft in the interior of federation space, which would also explain the civie personel onboard.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 1:57 am

Thats one possibilty Tryptic. Personaly I'd say add a Federation battleship (a real one) such as the Excalibur class with medium or long rage weapons.

You realize that memory beta says the Excalibur is a Cruiser
Excalibur class - Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki

A Galaxy-X would be fitting as a BS

http://web.archive.org/web/200610200220 ... axy_x.html

Other designs might fit as Battlecruisers or heavy battle oriented Cruisers

Federation Fleet: Intrepid X

http://web.archive.org/web/200610200209 ... tomer.html

[Falaffelboy]

posted on December 5th, 2010, 3:29 am

Last edited by Falaffelboy on December 5th, 2010, 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

I like the idea of making the Avalon available to mayson. How about limiting it down to max 3 or 4 Ships for mason. Maybe remove all the bonuses that Risner Avalons have, let it have +1 defensive bonus That way he wouldnd become overpowered and the avalon would become a offensive support ship.

And for risner, I think the Achilles class is not bad but it doesnt entierly feel like a federation ship.
What about the New Orleans Class i think it has an cool classic design (please dont tell me you gonna waste it just for warp in). I miss that saucer look on buildable Ships. Maybe making it a fast medium Cruiser which is eqipped with multiple Phaserbanks as a special ability. So that it can attack multiple targets especially good on close range medium Ships. That ship should ether not be limited in its quantity
or limited to max 20 or 30 ships just if the balancing is requiring it.

posted on December 7th, 2010, 8:07 pm

You realize that memory beta says the Excalibur is a Cruiser
Excalibur class - Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki

Im pretty sure hes talking about the original(in more ways then one) and obviously true Excalibur.

Bridge Commander Files - Screenshots for File: A set of Excaliburs

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:02 pm

Im pretty sure hes talking about the original(in more ways then one) and obviously true Excalibur.

Bridge Commander Files - Screenshots for File: A set of Excaliburs

Unless you have some data to go along with that I'll assume memory beta has the correct info.
Also the Sovereign class is also a cruiser (Exploration Cruiser) same as the Enterprise D

[Anonymous]

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:14 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on December 7th, 2010, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Unless you have some data to go along with that I'll assume memory beta has the correct info.
Also the Sovereign class is also a cruiser (Exploration Cruiser) same as the Enterprise D

Bridge Commander Files - Bridge Commander File Search: excalibur

thats a search page from bc files showing that the excalibur existed at the latest in 2002. probably earlier. star trek online was just about conceived then, and hadnt been publicly announced.

sto had no right to use the name excalibur. they must have known it was out there, and they decided to stomp all over the little guy modders. i have no respect for sto and its developers.

---

EDIT: killed a typo

[Tyler]

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:26 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 7th, 2010, 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Sovereign Class is a battleship, not an 'exploration cruiser'. Starfleet uses explorer for their ships because they are designed to explore, but that doesn't reflect their stats. The Galaxy is an explorer because it's designed to explore, but also has battleship specs not cruiser.

Excalibur Class Starship. Considering the evac limit (1200) for this real Excalibur, these stats actually downplay its numbers despite being battleship-level.

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:42 pm

Here we go again with that eternal discussion.

A vessel designation (Cruiser, frigate, BS etc) is determined by its design function, not by its specifications.
Starfleet only build the defiant as a dedicated warship. The Galaxy and Sovereign classes were Exploration Cruisers.

Capable at combat, but designed for exploration. 

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:46 pm

lololol flame war begins

all these names really dont mean much in space anyway. all starfleet ever did was fly around scanning stuff anyway. i dont know why they didnt use a fleet of probes.

[Tyler]

posted on December 7th, 2010, 10:52 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 7th, 2010, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I doubt it's quite at 'flame war' levels...

Probes don't risk lives needlessly, which isn't very fun for people like Janeway.

Here we go again with that eternal discussion.

A vessel designation (Cruiser, frigate, BS etc) is determined by its design function, not by its specifications.
Starfleet only build the defiant as a dedicated warship. The Galaxy and Sovereign classes were Exploration Cruisers.

Capable at combat, but designed for exploration. 

Explorer, warship and escort are function-related names. Things like Battleship are spec related. Battleships are 'the most powerfully armed and most heavily armored warships of their era'.

Worf called Enterprise a battleship because of its specs, making it a battleship. It was never referred to in canon as a cruiser, only 'battleship' and 'explorer'.