Ship discussion

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:26 pm

Well I am just saying it in terms of the dominion war too and so many DDs were destroyed their to and that was really quick

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:32 pm

As for them using two DDs against the galaxy that one time, and I believe there was also a time when the galaxy found herself against three, this by no means suggests that the Romulans need to out number the galaxy. It was context. They didn't want a fight, so they just showed the galaxy that surrender was forced. If they wanted a fight, three decloaking DDs would wipe galaxy out.

Starfleet ships have outgunned Romulan ones all the way from TOS and they always resorted to numbers as compensation. The D'deridex is all about intimidating the enemy, and has less usable space than the Galaxy with fewer weapons actually shown. 4 Massive wings and a huge gap as big as the ship itself isn't very good use of space.

3 on 1 would go to the D'deridex naturally (numbers can influence battles just as easily as power), but outnumbering an enemy when you have a ship that could scare many just by the sight of one would be odd for a race that would have to waste a ship that could be patrolling the border.

Has a D'deridex ever show aft weapons? I don't remember any.

[Anonymous]

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:35 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on December 21st, 2010, 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Though, to be fair to Riker ( did I just type that?), they didn't really have reason to think they would attack them. Klingons were supposed to be their friends.

even so they took their time returning fire. and then responded very poorly to the boarding action, then worf missed a ferengi and got blasted.

but after rewatching it youtube it seems the mistakes were mainly from the fact that it was written implausibly.

firstly we saw clearly that the ent raised shields before the first shot, as it takes time to decloak. so shields were up. so 2 old brels shouldnt have been able to damage the ent so bad, it was just poor writing there.

the ship took way too much damage way too fast.

shields were low, then shields magically turned off even though the ship had stopped shaking from incoming fire.

then the boarding was silly, ferengi arent commandos lol, they beamed into cargo bays and moved at light speed throughout the ship either alone or in pairs, and the (presumably) dozens of redshirts all did nothing about this. no reinforcements to the bridge. no teams having firefights in corridors like when the viddiians carjacked janeway. at least in that case the viddiians were facing a battered voyager that had no gunz, and the viddiians had hundreds more redshirts to throw at voyager. then basics undid all that with boarding through the shuttlebays which happened too fast and kazon redshirts moving too fast etc.

also why didnt riker just put up some transporter interfering technobabbly field. anything in trek blocks transporters, rock, random technobabble radiation, riker's stupidity; it's surprising data couldnt cobble together something to block the ferengi/klingon boarding action.

also surprise coincidence of the day: a ferengi commando happens accross kid picard. all alone, taking a turbo lift to deck 12 where all the important ship's functions are located....

then they beam onto the bridge, taking several seconds to be combat ready, and everyone stands there staring. commander data responds with the speed of a commodore 64, worf responds (and looks like) like giant washboard and riker is too stupid to do anything. the ferengi dont even look confident enough to capture a bridge.

so the only guy with a phaser (seriously why did he have a type 2? usually they only carry type 1? maybe worf needed a gun to feel complete) is worf, who aims slower than artillery, and misses his first shot, and then conveniently forgets to duck behind his console and gets shot. maybe he was afraid the console would explode.

worf is down, data is still hang crashing like windows 98 (someone push ctrl alt del pls) and riker actually does a good dodge, before issuing an exteremely long command and the ferengi are so dumb they dont shoot him before he is finished reciting magna carta. data finally stands up and gives the ferengi his evil stare, which surprisingly doesnt immediately vapourise them.

what a load of rubbish

---

EDIT:

Well I am just saying it in terms of the dominion war too and so many DDs were destroyed their to and that was really quick

you have to take everything in the war with a pinch of salt since the evidence is shaky at best. nobody (except the defiant) turned on their shields for the duration of the war.

starfleet didnt build many galaxies, so seeing a whole bunch get blown up would make it seem like starfleet was badly outmatched. while the romulans ONLY had one CGI model (big D obviously) so it had to be Big D getting blown up. while some older excels and mirandas could be the cannon fodder.

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:37 pm

I don't think they do, I mean remember that Voyager episode were the doctor goes to the Alpha quadrant and they those three Fed ships show up and take out that one ship really quickly and yea that was with the Prometheus' help but it didn't do much except shoot at Fed ships

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:42 pm

about the evidence from message in a bottle:

this is voyager, so evidence quality is kinda low, voyager has a poor track record on plausability.

the prometheus itself seemed stupid for splitting into 3. (only ambas should split )

the (only) romulan ship that was destroyed, was done at the end of the battle, so if the 3 starfleet captains had brains they would focus on 1 warbird, weakening it, then the prommie helped out. so thats 4 ships (6 if you consider the sepped bits) on 1.

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:47 pm

Hey, we don't take kindly to intelligence and logic in Voyagerland. Besides, they mostly seem to hit the Prometheus, instead of the Warbirds that would kill them if they tried to send marines over.

Stupid Voyager... as if making the Borg and Q into jokes wasn't bad enough, even Starfleet redshirts got worse.

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:56 pm

What is this 'Voi-yah-gir' you speak of? Trek ended with the series finale of DS9. End of story.

posted on December 21st, 2010, 11:57 pm

Hey, we don't take kindly to intelligence and logic in Voyagerland. Besides, they mostly seem to hit the Prometheus, instead of the Warbirds that would kill them if they tried to send marines over.

at first yes, but there was the period where the camera was inside focussing on the emh comedy duo where we didnt see who the redshirts were shooting, i prefer to think they did shoot the romulans. as the romulans did shoot them.

funnily none of this impacted on the dominion war lol. romulus probably blamed the talshiar and executed the talshiar members responsible as a way of keeping the peace.

What is this 'Voi-yah-gir' you speak of? Trek ended with the series finale of DS9. End of story.

hey if you wanna get revisionist i can end ds9 before season 7 where ezri dax got introduced and nog appeared more times than main cast member jake

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 12:10 am

Regardless about whether you like that show or not Voyager is still canon

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 12:16 am

i wonder if i can revise canon from the other side. i thought tos was terrible, full of clichés, all problems solved by kirk disrobing etc.

maybe i can remove tos from canon. solves the problem of klingon foreheads too

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 12:17 am

Don't do it! That's suicide!

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 12:19 am

Yea tos wasn't my favorite either, if Kirk didn't kiss someone in an episode then the bad guys won

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 12:24 am

The only bad thing about TOS was that the captain inspired the creation of Zapp Brannigan of Futurama infamy... actually, that alone is more than enough reason to condemn the show!

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 2:38 am

Starfleet ships have outgunned Romulan ones all the way from TOS and they always resorted to numbers as compensation. The D'deridex is all about intimidating the enemy, and has less usable space than the Galaxy with fewer weapons actually shown. 4 Massive wings and a huge gap as big as the ship itself isn't very good use of space.

3 on 1 would go to the D'deridex naturally (numbers can influence battles just as easily as power), but outnumbering an enemy when you have a ship that could scare many just by the sight of one would be odd for a race that would have to waste a ship that could be patrolling the border.

Has a D'deridex ever show aft weapons? I don't remember any.

DD don't need aft guns. They uncloak, fire full phasers and torps from head on, and then re-cloak.

I don't see the argument for trying to point out these sort of weaknesses, the ship was designed to be like it is. I am big and powerful... and I can disappear. Ships that can't cloak, being therefore vulnerable, need 360 firing arc.

And the size implies greater hull strength, greater durability. It would be useless to say that the Romulans built a big ship to intimidate, but in reality, a ship half its size could match it. What, they were just 'hoping' you'd get scared and run away?

DD is a tough ship, is all I'm saying. There is no hard proof either way (about beating a galaxy, although I'd say just by the way the Ent D crew acted whenever a Romulan Warbird uncloaked shows they were in trouble). But easily, cloaking should give it to D'deridex. And even without that, I'd still say the D'deridex must be built for the task. She's big and she's mean.

[Tyler]

posted on December 22nd, 2010, 2:57 am

Last edited by Tyler on December 22nd, 2010, 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Size means nothing for hull strength, that's hull thickness and Structural Integrity that decides that. No weapons aft would be a retarded design flaw partly because it cannot protect against anything behind it, and partly because Cloak can be disabled. Your logic makes the Romulans seem stupid, even the Defiant has aft weapons and that's designed to charge straight at the target not away from them.

Yes, designed to intimidate others. A big point of intimidation is to make others think you're stronger than you really are, which is a very common use of that tactic. The Romulan preference for avoiding combat where they don't need it and secretive methods goes well with intimidation.

Size doesn't make a ship more durable, the Structural Integrity and armor thickness I mentioned before does that. Size would work against durability (unless you're Borg) because the field has a lot more ship to cover, making it easier to compromise. Plus, you're slower and easier to hit.

I'm not denying it's tough (it's still a Battleship), just that it's overrated a little. The crew reacted concerned about most things, even the Cardassians, and they know the Romulans rarely come for a 'peaceful chat'. Cloak is an advantage, but isn't a gamebreaker. I don't doubt one could give a Galaxy a run for it's money, I just don't see anything to show it's got greater firepower.

Anyway, since we're arguing about something that really comes down to personal opinion (no definate proof either way, as you said) shall we agree to disagree?