Battle of Veridian III (split off topic discussion)

[Anonymous]

posted on July 24th, 2010, 6:39 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on July 24th, 2010, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

we didnt see how much time it took for adjusting the weapons to match, they could maybe have got faster at doing it the more times it changed.

and once they knew which screen showed the frequency they could auto zoom that screen any time it came into shot. the first time took longer as they didnt know which screen showed it.

i think tuvok changed it every 30 seconds. from that i assume that 30 seconds was about as fast as tuvok cared to do it.

and geordi would have to look in the general direction of the panel at least once every 30 seconds.

cleavage sisters (that's their offical FO name now or just a nickname? Either way, I need to use it more often)

thats just a nickname, but its more descriptive and sums them up better. i dont bother using the real names of third rate villains like the cleavage sisters and rofl

posted on July 24th, 2010, 7:19 pm

I believe it was every 10 seconds in voyager, and at that rate they shouldnt have had time to adjust that quickly. Either way as mention earlier there is no absolute way to tell what LaForge was looking at through that battle. All in all I feel it was a pretty lame excuse the writers put in as to why the the Enterprise got manhandled by the cleavage sisters.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 7:31 pm

even every 10 seconds the cleavage sister should have seen and adapted.

but the first shot probably knocked out loads of systems, it did hit the engineering section.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 10:58 pm

even every 10 seconds the cleavage sister should have seen and adapted.

but the first shot probably knocked out loads of systems, it did hit the engineering section.

Assuming he looked at the readout of the shield frequency every 10 seconds sure. Altho as I said earlier, I think he prolly had more on his mind by then doing damage control then worry about the shield frequency.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 11:02 pm

I think this part isn't being noticed...

geordi didnt sit there staring at the screen, but the console on which the frequency was shown was in the middle of the room i believe. so every time he pointed his head in that general direction the visor would see the frequency.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Generations-hating!!! I love it!!! 

Took a glance at a few posts, and I gotta disagree with some. Lemme begin...

Yes, with the shields useless, the Enterprise was more or less a sitting duck for the Whorass-I mean Duras Sisters BOP. But that doesn't mean that it could've been swatted like a fly. BOP's are strong considering their age, but think about it. The Enterprise was one of the toughest ships in Starfleet at the time. And for those who noticed, she had just received a refit exclusively for the movie, undoubtetly meaning she was a bit tougher. A starship's hull is not like cheap paper. Not all weapons fire could cut through it with ease. In BOBW for instance, when they were getting hit by the cutting beam, it was causing breaches in the hull, but it wasn't tearing the entire ship apart, just that specific area. By that token, a BOP's disruptors would have a harder time getting through the hull.

It was one lucky shot, their last shot before the BOP was destroyed, that caused the warp core to breach. The other shots had done damage, but it was all fixable should they have reached a shipyard. Sadly, they didn't. And so we had a continuing series of not-epic but not-super-fail TNG movies.

On a side note, FRAK THE PERSON WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA TO DESTORY THE ENTERPRISE

I'm done. 

posted on July 24th, 2010, 11:30 pm

actually the cleavage sisters fired torps first, not disruptors. they fired several torps which were clearly seen impacting the engineering section.

i dont care how much refits the ent had, torps hurt when they hit the hull directly. those hits probably damaged the ent a lot. weakening it to the point that it couldnt fight back.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 11:42 pm

actually the cleavage sisters fired torps first, not disruptors. they fired several torps which were clearly seen impacting the engineering section.

i dont care how much refits the ent had, torps hurt when they hit the hull directly. those hits probably damaged the ent a lot. weakening it to the point that it couldnt fight back.

Huh. You got me there with those torps. I do remember that. Not that I'd like to remember that, mind you. And the BOP did use disruptors later, I remember some hitting the nacelle. Still, the Enterprise could take a pounding and still fight back.

I have to use BOBW as an example again. The cutting beam? That hit engineering section, but all it did was breach the hull, thankfully. Yeah, the torpedoes hit engineering, but the Enterprise was still able to fight back, and take several more hits before breaching the core.

On another note, core breaches tend to build up very quickly. In Yesterday's Enterprise, the core would've breached less than a minute after the Enterprise-C entered the rift. In Cause and Effect, the breach happened within seconds, but that was most likely due to the severe damage done to the nacelle.

So yeah, they got in some heavy hits with the torpedoes, but the Enterprise would've survived, had it not been for the last shot.

[Equinox1701e]

posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:16 am

Last edited by Equinox1701e on July 25th, 2010, 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think this part isn't being noticed...

Its noticed, however yes the display had it, but its not like he was staring at it like he did the first time, which means every time he glaced over that area they would have to freeze frame it and enhance it, then they would have to modify the weapons again. If they were constantly rotating frequency then they shouldnt have had that much time to get ready between rotations. Also the console displaying the shield info was behind the core, LaForge primarily uses the console that was just outside the core facing opposite that one, or the main center table in the middle of engineering. Either way in a battle sitation it just doesnt seem plausible that it would unfold that way.

posted on July 25th, 2010, 5:36 am

send an email to mythbusters  this needs to be  busted plausible or confirmed.  can a 30+ YO  D-12 class Bird Of prey destroy a Galaxy class starship if said galaxy class effectively has no shields.

[Tyler]

posted on July 25th, 2010, 11:52 am

Last edited by Tyler on July 25th, 2010, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Only if Riker's in command.

Its noticed, however yes the display had it, but its not like he was staring at it like he did the first time, which means every time he glaced over that area they would have to freeze frame it and enhance it, then they would have to modify the weapons again. If they were constantly rotating frequency then they shouldnt have had that much time to get ready between rotations. Also the console displaying the shield info was behind the core, LaForge primarily uses the console that was just outside the core facing opposite that one, or the main center table in the middle of engineering. Either way in a battle sitation it just doesnt seem plausible that it would unfold that way.

Actually, LaForge has a habit of constantly glancing around when talking to other Engineers, a number of which worked right by that console (which happens to be in the main engineering area that all the crew work, in plain view of almost anyone in there). Freeze-frame works very well once you know excactly what to look for, much faster than the first time.

In other words, you're willfully ignoring something valid.

posted on July 25th, 2010, 12:36 pm

Only if Riker's in command.
Actually, LaForge has a habit of constantly glancing around when talking to other Engineers, a number of which worked right by that console (which happens to be in the main engineering area that all the crew work, in plain view of almost anyone in there). Freeze-frame works very well once you know excactly what to look for, much faster than the first time.

In other words, you're willfully ignoring something valid.

Im am not ignoring a valid point whatsoever, if anything YOUR are ignoring a valid point. 10 seconds isnt alot of time to adapt your weapons to a constantly rotating shield frequency. And I already stated earlier it was POSSIBLE he was constantly looking at the display, however IMO its unlikely he was looking at it often enough to give them EVERY new frequecny as to render their shields completely useless the whole battle. Assuming of course they were in fact rotating frequency at all. Youre the one that that seems unwilling to accept the possibility that that scene had a huge gaping flaw in it. I also stated in a previous post that your scenario was possible, it just doesnt seem likely to me given all the factos involved. The whole thing just reeks of poor writing.

posted on July 25th, 2010, 12:42 pm

maybe stupid question as i do not have generations anymore... how did they hacked into his visor?
because i do not remember TNG episode where visor was transmiting something "wireless"

[Tyler]

posted on July 25th, 2010, 12:47 pm

Last edited by Tyler on July 25th, 2010, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The VISOR has a wireless transmitter, because the Enterprise crew used it as a remote camera at least once like that (TNG: Heart of Glory). All they'd need to do is put a bug in the system to make it transmit to them or add a small camera of their own.

Im am not ignoring a valid point whatsoever, if anything YOUR are ignoring a valid point. 10 seconds isnt alot of time to adapt your weapons to a constantly rotating shield frequency. And I already stated earlier it was POSSIBLE he was constantly looking at the display, however IMO its unlikely he was looking at it often enough to give them EVERY new frequecny as to render their shields completely useless the whole battle. Assuming of course they were in fact rotating frequency at all. Youre the one that that seems unwilling to accept the possibility that that scene had a huge gaping flaw in it. I also stated in a previous post that your scenario was possible, it just doesnt seem likely to me given all the factos involved. The whole thing just reeks of poor writing.

I'm not ignoring anything valid, it's others making up facts to fit their views. You're making up and
adding something that wasn't there. 10 seconds isn't a valid point because there is no 10 seconds (on the other hand, remodulation isn't mentioned, so I guess the whole discussion isn't valid).

I never said it wasn't sloppy writing, and was one of the people who agreed it was. I was also one of the first (if not the first) to say they were desperate to get rid of the Galaxy. People often try to force canon to make sense, it's a human flaw to want things to make sense.

posted on July 25th, 2010, 12:57 pm

The VISOR has a wireless transmitter, because the Enterprise crew used it as a remote camera at least once like that. All they'd need to do is put a bug in the system to make it transmit to them or add a small camera of their own.

ah yes first appearance of that device is in Hearth of Glory episode

The transmitter was a small cube-shaped device that fit on the side of the VISOR

anyway i agree they wanted to get rid of Enterprise D so they come up with this
perhaps to make sovereign appearance