Battle of Veridian III (split off topic discussion)
What's your favourite episode? How is romulan ale brewed? - Star Trek in general :-)
posted on July 25th, 2010, 1:27 pm
Tyler wrote:The VISOR has a wireless transmitter, because the Enterprise crew used it as a remote camera at least once like that (TNG: Heart of Glory). All they'd need to do is put a bug in the system to make it transmit to them or add a small camera of their own.
I'm not ignoring anything valid, it's others making up facts to fit their views. You're making up and
adding something that wasn't there. 10 seconds isn't a valid point because there is no 10 seconds (on the other hand, remodulation isn't mentioned, so I guess the whole discussion isn't valid).
I never said it wasn't sloppy writing, and was one of the people who agreed it was. I was also one of the first (if not the first) to say they were desperate to get rid of the Galaxy. People often try to force canon to make sense, it's a human flaw to want things to make sense.
I wasnt making up anything, I was giving reasoning as to why shiled remodulation would have worked given what we already know based on different episodes. True it isnt valid because in the end lazy writing won out and the enterprise met its doom. I never made up or added anything that wasnt there. Show me where I added something, all my posts give a reason as to why the battle shouldnt have turned out the way it did. The way they destroyed the enterprise was rediculous given the circomstances, but if you want to keep defending it so be it.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 1:39 pm
Last edited by Tyler on July 25th, 2010, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Someone made up the 10 seconds part, I can't remember who it was but assumed it was you since you keep using it. The only way it would turn out differently is if the Klingons intentonally ignored their camera.
When did I start defending it? Defending something and trying to make sense of it is 2 different things. It's canon, wheter people like it or not.
When did I start defending it? Defending something and trying to make sense of it is 2 different things. It's canon, wheter people like it or not.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 1:49 pm
Last edited by Equinox1701e on July 25th, 2010, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The 10 second thing came up from the Voyager episode Equinox. Tuvok changed the frequency every 10 seconds, you can assume that was prolly standard procedure when the shields are penetrated. One would assume the Enterprise would do the same thing. Reguardless you are correct, the whole scene didnt make sense and thats how this whole thread got started in the first place, I was trying to explain WHY it didnt make sense. Yeah I would prefer the movie make sense but obviously it doesnt, it would be nice when they decide to destroy the arguably second most popular ship of all time they give a GOOD reason. I suppose that would be asking too much, like giving Kirk a decent death.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:03 pm
Last edited by Tyler on July 25th, 2010, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You could also assume that that was the best an Intrepid could manage, since Tuvok wouldn't be screwing around. The Galaxy wasn't as advanced and would likely be less capable than an Intrepid (damn, that was painful to type). I guess 'Plot-induced stupidity' is the only way to make sense of it, considering how little real information was actually given.
The A got a death with meaning and some good lines as it burned, while we got the kind of destruction that you'd expect in a time-loop episode and a photo-album. All Good Things... would make a better ending.
Speaking of Kirk's death, I think I'll try to find footage of the original version.
EDIT: Found it.
The A got a death with meaning and some good lines as it burned, while we got the kind of destruction that you'd expect in a time-loop episode and a photo-album. All Good Things... would make a better ending.
Speaking of Kirk's death, I think I'll try to find footage of the original version.
EDIT: Found it.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:10 pm
Tyler wrote:You could also assume that that was the best an Intrepid could manage, since Tuvok wouldn't be screwing around. The Galaxy wasn't as advanced and would likely be less capable than an Intrepid (damn, that was painful to type). I guess 'Plot-induced stupidity' is the only way to make sense of it, considering how little real information was actually given.
The A got a death with meaning and some good lines as it burned, while we got the kind of destruction that you'd expect in a time-loop episode and a photo-album. All Good Things... would make a better ending.
Speaking of Kirk's death, I think I'll try to find footage of the original version.
EDIT: Found it.
Yes a lready saw the original version, i dont know which was wose to be honest. Also that was the original enterprise not the A. The A's fate is still unknown. And I still feel the Galaxy is superior to an intrepid post refit, they were puropsly built for future upgrades.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:16 pm
I prefer the original, Kirk actually did something other than stand there and appeal to TOS fans.
I always get the A and original mixed-up since they're the same class and look virtually identical.
The Enterprise, with all of Geordi's upgrades running at peak efficiency was comparable to the prototype Intrepid (in Warp Core efficiency, at least). Voyager by that time would have had many upgrades of its own, including Seven's Borg ones. The Enterprise was still working at pre-War specs at the time it died.
I always get the A and original mixed-up since they're the same class and look virtually identical.
The Enterprise, with all of Geordi's upgrades running at peak efficiency was comparable to the prototype Intrepid (in Warp Core efficiency, at least). Voyager by that time would have had many upgrades of its own, including Seven's Borg ones. The Enterprise was still working at pre-War specs at the time it died.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:28 pm
Tyler wrote:I prefer the original, Kirk actually did something other than stand there and appeal to TOS fans.
I always get the A and original mixed-up since they're the same class and look virtually identical.
The Enterprise, with all of Geordi's upgrades running at peak efficiency was comparable to the prototype Intrepid (in Warp Core efficiency, at least). Voyager by that time would have had many upgrades of its own, including Seven's Borg ones. The Enterprise was still working at pre-War specs at the time it died.
I guess thats another question, what were the Enterprise upgrades. Obviously they had some refitting as per the new consoles on the bridge and the addition of stellar cartography. By the time the movie came out they had encountered the Dominion and you would think they would have given the Enterprise a proper overhaul. The Galaxy may not be as fast as an Intrepid but its superior in most other aspects.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 2:40 pm
That Stellar Cartography area was probably already on the ship, it seems like an unusual addition for a potential war. The only combat-related thing we've seen one of those rooms do is something the main viewscreen can do easily.
The trouble with the Dominion had only recently started, the 'cold war' hadn't started that long ago and Enterprise is often a long way from base. They probably hadn't upgraded it properly yet, since they still didn't know much about the Dominion yet.
A Galaxy would be superior in offenive and defensive abilities and customizability. Speed and things based on the Computer would be where the Intrepid is superior.
The trouble with the Dominion had only recently started, the 'cold war' hadn't started that long ago and Enterprise is often a long way from base. They probably hadn't upgraded it properly yet, since they still didn't know much about the Dominion yet.
A Galaxy would be superior in offenive and defensive abilities and customizability. Speed and things based on the Computer would be where the Intrepid is superior.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 5:40 pm
Unfortunately there no way to be sure, however I would take a Galaxy ove an Intrepid any time. Galay/Nebula design is one of my favorite fed designs. Also not all upgrades would be necessairly combat oriented. Stellar cartography had been shown in previous TNG episodes but it was nothing like the Generations version. Im guessing it was an upgraded version.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 5:49 pm
And probably a less-glitchy holodeck, resistant to being taken over by alien lifeforms, and unable to be used to steal all command functions from the rest of the ship.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 5:57 pm
Last edited by Tyler on July 25th, 2010, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd take a Galaxy, too (you can probably tell I like the class) but still think the Interprid's more advanced in compters because of the Bio-neural gel packs.
Not all upgrades would be combat oriented, but at the time they were concerned about possible problems with the Dominion so defense-related ones would have priority at the time. Especially after what they did to the Odyssey.
The Stellar cartography lab from the movie was probably a different lab that we haven't seen until the Nexus incident. It was much larger than the one from the series and seemed at least 2 decks tall. The Galaxy has over 100 labs, and MA considers the 2 SC labs to be seperate.
Not all upgrades would be combat oriented, but at the time they were concerned about possible problems with the Dominion so defense-related ones would have priority at the time. Especially after what they did to the Odyssey.
The Stellar cartography lab from the movie was probably a different lab that we haven't seen until the Nexus incident. It was much larger than the one from the series and seemed at least 2 decks tall. The Galaxy has over 100 labs, and MA considers the 2 SC labs to be seperate.
posted on July 25th, 2010, 6:42 pm
Tyler wrote:I'd take a Galaxy, too (you can probably tell I like the class) but still think the Interprid's more advanced in compters because of the Bio-neural gel packs.
Not all upgrades would be combat oriented, but at the time they were concerned about possible problems with the Dominion so defense-related ones would have priority at the time. Especially after what they did to the Odyssey.
The Stellar cartography lab from the movie was probably a different lab that we haven't seen until the Nexus incident. It was much larger than the one from the series and seemed at least 2 decks tall. The Galaxy has over 100 labs, and MA considers the 2 SC labs to be seperate.
Thats possible no doubt. Even though Intrepid uses the gel packs you have to wonder how much faster the computer was. I mean the Galaxys upgrade potential is huge, and id imagine that a Galaxy could do anything an Intrepid could computer wise just maybe not as fast. Makes you wonder too if the upgrade program for the Galaxy class could possibly include the installation of gel packs, on the Intrepid the gel packs are in certain locations and seem to act like "boosters" for processing. Seems like that could be incorporated into a refit without much trouble. The Intrepids still usew the same basic wireing, they just have those packs all over.
posted on July 31st, 2010, 5:34 am
Last edited by Professor J on July 31st, 2010, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'd take an intrepid. Its more advanced, sleeker, faster, meaner. It feels like something they would give to a more experienced officer... after they were done training on a certain other big-bulk cruiser, which would be handy while the were still inexperienced and learning to issue orders effectively so as not to NEED to sponge that much fire. (assuming they didn't blow the damned thing up, or crash it after one or two torpedo messed up the star-drive)
Attachments
posted on July 31st, 2010, 8:26 am
Last edited by Tyler on July 31st, 2010, 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Intrepid is weaker than the Galaxy, the only advantage it gets is Warp and computer speed. A small scout like that isn't as prestigious an assignment as the Galaxy.
There's a reason the Galaxy is well known throughout the quadrent for its abilities, and attracts Starfleets finest officers.
There's a reason the Galaxy is well known throughout the quadrent for its abilities, and attracts Starfleets finest officers.
posted on July 31st, 2010, 9:00 am
I never mentioned anything about strength comparison... If you take a '78 Fleetwood and ram it into a '09 Benz, the old boat will always win.
Intrepids are a good interceptor. Fuel efficient, small crew requirement, denser structural-integrity grid, ample armament for a ship that size, quick to repair, and indeed a small scout, which means having a much smaller target profile, as well as being an intelligence gatherer, which is the ultimate advantage.
Being big, imposing & intimidating is nice (not really Starfleet, but hey) and having "...over 100 labs..." is, uhh, wait, isn't that what Starfleet Science is for?
Hell, as my personal command craft, I'd probably take an Intrepid over a Sovereign. I just like something about the design. Something shark-like about it.
Intrepids are a good interceptor. Fuel efficient, small crew requirement, denser structural-integrity grid, ample armament for a ship that size, quick to repair, and indeed a small scout, which means having a much smaller target profile, as well as being an intelligence gatherer, which is the ultimate advantage.
Being big, imposing & intimidating is nice (not really Starfleet, but hey) and having "...over 100 labs..." is, uhh, wait, isn't that what Starfleet Science is for?
Hell, as my personal command craft, I'd probably take an Intrepid over a Sovereign. I just like something about the design. Something shark-like about it.
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