Battle of Veridian III (split off topic discussion)

posted on July 13th, 2010, 1:39 pm

This discussion is split from the following thread:

Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Passive Ability - Biologic Adaption Systems (Breen Only)

where it was off topic

I hate Generations... Even with its shields down the Enterprise should have handed that BOP a serving of its own ass on a gilded platter. But the bottom line is that Riker was an idiot for not ordering the shield frequency to be rotated immediately. My thoughts are with the brave souls of the Titan...

why?

its shields werent down, they were just useless. i dont like riker, i believe he is a moron, but maybe riker did order shield frequencies rotated every x seconds, i mean even a child could figure out thats the right thing to do. maybe it was off screen and we didnt see it. but geordi would have been looking at that display a lot, so any shield changes would have been noticed by the cleavage sisters.

also with its shields useless there is no chance the enterprise could survive. the hull isnt that strong, i would have expected the enterprise to die faster. without shields any hit to the deflector dish would make it explode. they should have targetted the ents warp core, blowing them up faster. without shields ships hulls dont take any beating.

Yeah, I think the Enterprise would have taken heavy damage and could really have blown up at any time BUT, they did last about 3 minutes before taking critical damage. Had that been a Borg cube the Enterprise would have been unloading torpedo after torpedo, with constant barrages of phaser fire. If they rammed that BoP full of torpedoes, I'm pretty sure they could have destroyed it within 3 minutes. Unfortunately, Riker distracted the ships Tactical officer for the entire time

Needless to say, the Klingons were firing a combination of Photons (green in colour coming from the nose torpedo launcher) and similarly green disruptor blasts. I think if you played out a straight all out slugging match better then, then the answer would not be clear cut.

It's a Klingon ship. And it is Star Trek. Enough said.

i agree that the enterprise firing weapons as much as in BoBW should have destroyed the bop in that long amount of time that passed.

but its likely the first few shots from the bop damaged the enterprise's weapons, causing it to fire so slow and weak. so the ent couldnt manage the weapons spreads from BoBW

Anyways we're a bit off topic.

Perhaps now all the posts in the other thread that were off topic can be deleted.

posted on July 13th, 2010, 2:08 pm

I blame incompetent script writers. I mean they just could have added a line like: "target their shield generator" or whatever shizzle to disable the Enterprise shields with the first or second volley and done deal.

posted on July 13th, 2010, 4:10 pm

Honestly it was just a horrible script in the first place. The biggest idiot through the movie was Picard. Oh here I am in the nexus, now I can leave and go anywhere/anytime I want you say? Lets see I could either go back to the Enterprise and take Soren into custody while were were talking in Ten-Forward before all this bad shit happened or just go back to the planet where I got my ass kicked and hope things go better this time. Hmmm big decision here.....well then send me back to the planet where I got my ass handed to me by Soren!

Yeah nuff said.

posted on July 13th, 2010, 4:15 pm

i agree with everyone on how the film was kinda rubbish.

but with its first shots the bop probably did do serious damage to the enterprise, maybe it did disable shields, its first shots were at the engineering section, could have knocked out the machine or something.

posted on July 13th, 2010, 5:32 pm

They could have been rotating the shield frequency off-screen and not got any results; rotating shield frequancies didn't help the Odyssey, and the Dominion didn't have a constant eye inside the ship like the gruesome twosome did.

From the speech inbattle, I think the Enterprise was firing while the camera was on the Bridge (against a BoP with plot armor).

posted on July 14th, 2010, 2:31 am

Using thw Odyssey as an example isnt really a good comparison based on the weapons used. The Dominion weapons were different then anything the federation encountered and went right through their shields. Against klingon weapons rotating the frequency should have helped.

[Tyler]

posted on July 14th, 2010, 3:27 am

Last edited by Tyler on July 14th, 2010, 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

My example was that shield remodulation wouldn't always be effective at stopping weapons passing through. Starfleet shields can be modified to protect against Dominion weapons, so that part isn't important, but it can't be done in the field, just like an inside view (unless you have plot or good luck).

Both advantage have similar effects on a battle.

Maybe Voyager Vs Equinox might have been a slightly better comparison, but it was about remodulation not being infallible.

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:56 am

Use the anti-borg protocols.  Nobody has to look at the frequencies because the computer is rotating them at signifigant speeds.

And really, I think Riker isn't cut out for command yet.  When he should have ordered a full spread of torps, instead, he bitched and moaned.

posted on July 16th, 2010, 11:25 am

the script was horrible.
the bop couldnt disable the shields with the first volley because they are simply at another place. Riker could have blown up the bop easily, if the enterprise would have been combat ready(guessed by the fact that a combat ready galaxy can eradicate a bop quite fast). And comon, they knew there was a claoked enemy bop around, so the ship should have been prepared for a fight. Picard did also act quite stupid as Equinox1701e mentioned. I just try to forget this movie ...

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:05 pm

the first shots the bop fired directly impacted the hull on the engineering section. where all the power systems are. that hit probably knocked out the power systems, meaning the enterprise wasnt at its best anymore and couldnt shoot back a lot. the enterprise had no clue that the klinks knew their shield freq until after the first shot. they were sitting there with shields up which is the best they could do knowing a cloaked ship is hovering around.

i agree that riker is an idiot though. although not directly because of his actions in generations. there was nothing anybody could have done as that bop got a free shot at the ent.

i also agree that the script was crap, picard should have gone back and punched soren in the balls at the start.

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:22 pm

I think Picard going back to Veridian was a bit more believable (not the same thing as 'smart'), becuase he'd just trying to save that world and it would be fresh in his mind. He's more likely to think of that planet than the fact that he met Soren on the Enterprise.

If they went with that idea, Kirk couldn't have his brief cameo in the film. Not that that would be a bad thing, considering how that big part of the film was screwed up...

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:29 pm

well, the best would have been to have all gunz ready to fire, while having shields up. But there they had only the shields up, no torpedoes ready (remember: they had to make the tube ready for firing)Also in generations they stated every crappy systemfail, while there were no systemfails stated in the movie, till the coolant failed. Where we come to next funny point: the galaxy class does have a emergency eject system for the core, which seemed to not exist in the movie.

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

maybe keeping torps in the tube is unsafe, we've never seen ships loading torps they didnt intend to fire.
the emergency eject system is less reliable than the holodecks, that problem is through all of trek not just generations. i mean how many times have u seen emergency core eject actually work in a crisis? i remember only once.

[Tyler]

posted on July 16th, 2010, 12:53 pm

Last edited by Tyler on July 16th, 2010, 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Core Ejection is a last resort, normally only used if everything else has already failed and you're getting desperate. Tactics like that are rarely the most reliable ones available.

Geordi said there's nothing he could do, so it was probably off-line, anyway.

On a side note: Has anyone noticed that when they're evactuating the ship, the red alert lighting turns yellow for a single flash?

posted on July 16th, 2010, 1:14 pm

On a side note: Has anyone noticed that when they're evactuating the ship, the red alert lighting turns yellow for a single flash?

i try not to watch it that much, makes it easier to swallow all the crap if u pay less attention lol.