The Defiant

posted on August 28th, 2006, 3:33 pm

To Ryan: What's your problem? Can't even give me a coherent, non-rambling response? Better yet, why the hell are you trying to incite a flame war over something as trivial as this?! It isn't even a political thread for god's sake!

To Rhaz: Yes, its a fight against 7 hard AIs.

posted on August 28th, 2006, 3:46 pm

The first time I read that, I mistook the Ryan on the top for me, and I was lifting my eyebrow wondering.

Yeah, it's true the hard ai's can ususally build a balanced force, so they are the best offline benchmark, but...online, I personally tried the K'vort spam, and I was utterly destroyed by the Dominion forces, I had superior ships, and for a duration superior numbers, but the actual mass of the bug ships met my doom, because they got in phaser shots while I was manuevering to hit them with pulse weapons, and the introduction of the bombers, and various cruisers doomed my fleet, and I actually thought of building such a force of the Assualt Disruptor ships, so I made one group, and it was destroyed by a similar sized group of bugs, yes I could micro and take out maybe 5 every recharge, but their ships are much cheaper, and very effective at bringing down those lightly shielded ships.

posted on August 28th, 2006, 4:05 pm

Haha laugh.gif

"severely limited" my ***.

Oh, and Cho'naQs aren't support ships, they're artillery.

Yah sorry aboot that, I thought they were some other ship. Doesnt change the fact tho, these ships are even easier to **** up than that 1. support ship lol. I know that for a fact cause once I did a similar thing with Dominion defenders, which are IMO superior to the klingon blue beam ships (yes thats what I call them ) and I was raped by a superior number of monsoons -.-
These ships are good as fleet support, just let them sit in the back while other ships do the dirty work

As Ryan was trying to explain, we are talking about a ship that, when massed, is nearly invincible, due to strenght and size.
All the ships u listed can be EASILY destroyed if your opponent knows what he is doing, as ryan already said. Also against AI if you mass any 1 class of ships u will win, simply because the AI does not know how to adapt to them.

U said u played vs 7 hard AI, could u explain what were the conditions of the game lol resources, map, AI teams and races etc?

posted on August 28th, 2006, 7:04 pm

You can tell map and recources from the screens, but I'll tell you them anyway.

Map: Tajeda v3pr version by Jerod

Recources: Unlim

Teams: 1v2v5 with me bieng the 1

I've done it before, both against humans and with regular recources. The trick is to hide what is is you're building so he doesn't have time to counter. One second, you're harrasing him with K'vorts and Vor'chas, the next- BOOM! you hit him with 150+ Cho'naQs.

posted on August 28th, 2006, 7:40 pm

red, you'd do better than to only read the last 3 or 4 replies in a thread (which is clearly what you were doing). as for starting a flame war? WTF read dude FFS. I find it very irritating when someone just doesnt read properly in fact:

What's your problem? Can't even give me a coherent, non-rambling response? Better yet, why the hell are you trying to incite a flame war over something as trivial as this?! It isn't even a political thread for god's sake!

this is more likely to incite a flame war than what i've been trying to explain to you for about 2 posts before my last.

try playing online without unlimited resources, i bet it doesnt quite work out like you want it to.

posted on August 28th, 2006, 7:51 pm

No way your gonna build that many blue beam ships with regular resources in a normal MP game, not with me at least :S

posted on August 29th, 2006, 12:23 am

Your an idiot red one thing for sure

Unlimited resources dont mean ****

IF you play Mplayer online there is no other ship when massed as good as the defiant i know that from experience

You say kvorts ask barron they can be deat with bug ships just by using colision as barron has done to me

To be honest u say the Cho no what the feck it doesnt do **** that ship unless massed with others is not only weak its terrible

u compared Defiants to Bugs thats a joke, u compared to kvorts thats a joke and to comapre it to any other ships is just like laughable

At the end of the day u cannot compare any ship to the fed Defiant go look its a fact.

At the end of the day i think its ridiculous that it can be that powerful ive been in games with cube and ive seen what massed defiants can do barron can testify to that so can cube its a blatent fact

I just wish that they sort it out for V3 proper it should not be stronger than teh akira and infact teh akira should have 2 torps per salvo

posted on August 29th, 2006, 6:27 pm

In this game, the defiant is an A-10 Warthog.


And most ships standing in it's way are sorta like old Ford F150's with rebels in the back, firing unsophisticated slingshots , and any battleship in it's way...is sort of like ...a colonial paddle boat, with a bunch of people on the deck firing crossbows.

It has battleship level weapons, on the hull of a destroyer, with said manueverability and disproportional hull strength. It's speed is at least on par with most cruisers, this thing is a beast, and is generally unstoppable en masse.

[Anonymous]

posted on August 29th, 2006, 10:25 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on August 29th, 2006, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

*sigh*

Here we go.


To Ryan:

I admit that I overreacted.

However, I wonder what facet of your godlike mind told you that I only read 3 or 4 posts?

Oh, and I have played online with it. I also explained my strategy in the post, or did you miss that part?


To Baron:
Mabye not. I, personally wouldn't know. But only works once. The next time, they know to scout me very quickly.


To 4 of 11:

I appolagize for saying it was Ryan trying to start a flame war. I was wrong. It was, in fact, 4 of 11 all along.

Well, bad news. You failed.


1.
They don't!? Funny, I woulda sworn that in means that the recources are unlimited. Meh, silly me.


2.
Never tried cloaking them, have you?


3.
Unlike you, I'm not gonna run out and call you an idiot, but I will say that you learn real slow. Have you ever tried massing them before?


4.
One on one they'd be toast, but the simple fact is that they build faster, therefore it never IS one on one.

Oh, and I never said that one bug is as good as one defiant.


5.
One on one, a defiant can take on any small or even medium ship in the the game. Put it against a Norexan or Cehlaer, though, and it's toast.


6.
Defiants can rip through armadas of lrger and smaller ships, it's true. And they just might be, pound for pound, the toughest ship in the game. But when the enemy is unprepared, massed Cho'naQs can do a number on their base pretty darn quick.


To Rhaz:

That it is.

You'll note, never once did I claim that I could beat massed defiants.

posted on August 30th, 2006, 12:24 am

u cannot compare the CHo to the defiant

with the defiant and Critical shot the base is toast in less that 1min

especially with the rapid fire pulse phasers

[Anonymous]

posted on August 30th, 2006, 1:36 am

Last edited by Anonymous on August 30th, 2006, 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

u cannot compare the CHo to the defiant

with the defiant and Critical shot the base is toast in less that 1min

especially with the rapid fire pulse phasers

When did I compare them?

I simply said that the Cho'naQ can get the job done too.

Oh, and 12 seconds. That's how long it took me to completely obliterate a dominion base with roughly 90 Cho'naQs.

posted on August 30th, 2006, 10:36 am

One on one, a defiant can take on any small or even medium ship in the the game. Put it against a Norexan or Cehlaer, though, and it's toast.

Norexan maybe, Cahlear - u dont stand a chance against the Defiant.

AI Dominion base, u forgot to mention that....

The thing is, whenever these blue beam ships go against equal number of ships, any ships really, they are ******. It has purely to do with their EXTREMELY SLOW recharge rate and the fact that the AI works in a way that they ALL fire at 1 ship at the time. They would destroy that 1 ship yes, but in the meamtime 3 of them would be destroyed....

I can imagine blue beams are good vs bases cause u only need like 1 strike vs any starbase if you have enough of them. BUT again against ships they are ****** and in MP SHIPS, not starbases, are THE MOST important element to the game. So for the sake of the argument lets say u catch me by suprise exactly when I am attackin and so I dont have many ships in my base, u destroy my base. With my fleet I will destroy yours and then come after your ships which are pretty much ****** Its a lose lose situation for you.

Also if you have 90 cruisers its pretty damn easy to destroy an enemy base in 12s, just fly through it :S

posted on August 30th, 2006, 10:38 am

I think your misisng the point on unlim reosurces meaning **** all... What I belive 4 of 11 meant was that Unlim resources has no meaning in a real game that would be played on normal resources.

150+ Cho'naqs... 90 Cho... come on.... We are talking about in a realistic game that involves actuly paying resource costs. Also, we are talking about one fleet of 16 defiants, not 6+ fleets of Chonaqs. If you want to try and defend any logical points you have, Use one fleet of 16 chonaq's in your examples. or even the number buildable within the same time as a fleet of 16 defiants, or at the same cost as 16 defiants.

posted on August 30th, 2006, 6:33 pm

Norexan maybe, Cahlear - u dont stand a chance against the Defiant.

AI Dominion base, u forgot to mention that....

The thing is, whenever these blue beam ships go against equal number of ships, any ships really, they are ******. It has purely to do with their EXTREMELY SLOW recharge rate and the fact that the AI works in a way that they ALL fire at 1 ship at the time. They would destroy that 1 ship yes, but in the meamtime 3 of them would be destroyed....

I can imagine blue beams are good vs bases cause u only need like 1 strike vs any starbase if you have enough of them. BUT again against ships they are ****** and in MP SHIPS, not starbases, are THE MOST important element to the game. So for the sake of the argument lets say u catch me by suprise exactly when I am attackin and so I dont have many ships in my base, u destroy my base. With my fleet I will destroy yours and then come after your ships which are pretty much ****** Its a lose lose situation for you.

Also if you have 90 cruisers its pretty damn easy to destroy an enemy base in 12s, just fly through it :S

Actually, I whooped up on massed defiants with massed Cahlaers yesterday. Or mabye Eresis. Whichever one has the kick-*** pulse disruptors.

Oh, and yes, they have the pain-in-the-*** recharge rate, but the Moq'bara station's Battle Plan more than makes up for that. Oh, and I never said I only had one fleet.

And just yesterday I got slaughtered as feds by massed k'vorts.


To cts:

White it is true that Cho'naQs are better used in a support role, all I'm trying to say is that defiants arn't the only ship thats powerful when massed. Take Remores, for example. 16 fully upgraded Remores can take on 16 defiants head to head anyday. As to who would win, that's anyone's guess.

posted on August 30th, 2006, 6:37 pm

Actually, I whooped up on massed defiants with massed Cahlaers yesterday. Or mabye Eresis. Whichever one has the kick-*** pulse disruptors.

Neither of them has pulse disruptors ^_^
Cahlaer has 3 beam disruptors and Eresis has a disruptor and torpedos