The Defiant

posted on August 21st, 2006, 4:46 am

A couple of us were playing some matches, when we noticed something. It was a perfectly balanced game with wins and loses on both sides untill someone built a bunch of defiants (around 16). And then the game was effectivly over.
We threw HORDS of ships against the Defiants with very little luck, it is just amazing the ships cant even get close to them when they already blow up.
Now I find a few problems with the Defiant and Id like them fixed:

1. Its special weapon- The special weapon it has deactivates WEAPONS for 7 seconds yet it only costs 30 energy to fire. The Breen special weapon deactivates a RANDOM system for 5 seconds and costs 30 energy to fire. Isnt there something wrong with that :S One can say that that is because of the range, but surely range cant affect weapons strenght that much. I think that either the special energy usage should be higher or the effect shouldnt last so long.

2. Strenght compared to size - Defiant is essencially a battleship the size of a destroyer. I am sorry but that is simply not true, no way could a defiant class ship stand up to a battleship. While in FO the difference in defence and offence between the defiant and lets say D'deridex is very small indeed. Being so small gives it huge advantages too, for instance speed (this is ok imo), the ability to avoid torps (a HUGE advantage) and most importantly the ability to CLUSTER.
While other battleships do not have this ability so u can pick them 1 by 1, a group of Defiants tend to just cluster and form "hunting packs" and this is when things get dirty. If lets say 16 Defiants do this, u wont bring them down and I dont care what u do.
So while the Defiant might lack a little bit muscle compared to a FO battleship, it more than makes up with his huge size advantage,


Because of the stuff I just wrote, more and more people are just playing to pump Defiants out as soon as possible and that is not fair, nor fun. Please do not let it be like it was in Beta 2 where it was just a race of who would get the intel center first, and fix it in the full v3

possible solutions:

- Make it cost credits: The Defiant in the show is a special ship and you could make it cost like 1 credit, that would balance itself out I think cause people just wouldnt be able to only mass them and would look to other solutions instead

- Make it weaker: Well of course at least the shields on the Defiant in FO are way too strong, if u remember in the series its shields were gone quite fast, but it relied on its strong hull. So shields should defenetly be weaker. Also make the spec weapon either cost more energy or decrease its effect.

- Increase the cost: Well this is pretty straightforward, if you want such an awesome ship, you should pay for it, A LOT. And the build time should be increased too

Well these are just a few conclusions some of us have made, feel free to post your opinion

posted on August 21st, 2006, 5:14 am

I agree.

I also have some sudgestions:

- Make the special weapon cost like 2-3 credits to research.

- Make the shields weaker, than weaken the hull and make a tech called 'Ablative Armor' that would increase the hull strength. (This one has a base in canon as well and is simmilar to one listed above but more in depth, where as the defiant depended on not being hit, and on its armor once shields where down. Also, the ablative armor was an addition, not just a stock feature of the class.

- Make the special weapons cost 55. Thus making it posible to fire once with full energy and than again soon, but not imedieatly. Unlike now where 3 can be fired in succesion.

posted on August 21st, 2006, 6:10 am

I agree completely with Cts

55 energy on the Critical shot is a perfect solution

and i also like the idea about it costing a credit because its just simply unfair to have 16 defiants running around with nothing that can match them

posted on August 21st, 2006, 1:55 pm

im with the idea of making it need credits, and making the special energy need more energy to fire.
however, about making it weaker: if you make it weaker many of the counter points you put forward would simply make it a useless addition to the fed buildlist.
if you do weaken the shields then, hull strength MUST be made stronger (as well as the system hitpoints for most systems to offset shield protection).

@cts, ablative armour was a standard feature of the class, which is why it was DESIGNED with twice as much of the stuff as the sovie. plus this is set after the dominion war, ablative armour is common place on many ships, so it would make little sence having to research it for a non-prototype design.

Plus to offset the weaknesses given, i really think it should be made faster, as it is WAY too slow.

@baron, you used the wrong example there (warbird), that was crap, and proven to be a waste of space in most respects lol.
on the shows it is portrayed as a warp-speed death machine, and while i do not want it so in FO, i do agree that it should be elevated to "special ship" status.

posted on August 21st, 2006, 2:48 pm

@baron, you used the wrong example there (warbird), that was crap, and proven to be a waste of space in most respects lol.
on the shows it is portrayed as a warp-speed death machine, and while i do not want it so in FO, i do agree that it should be elevated to "special ship" status.

Fine lets say Dominion Battleship then (v-13) Is that also a waste huh

Plus to offset the weaknesses given, i really think it should be made faster, as it is WAY too slow.

Its as strong as a destroyer, cant really go much faster than that, I dunno what more u want -.-

im with the idea of making it need credits, and making the special energy need more energy to fire.
however, about making it weaker: if you make it weaker many of the counter points you put forward would simply make it a useless addition to the fed buildlist.
if you do weaken the shields then, hull strength MUST be made stronger (as well as the system hitpoints for most systems to offset shield protection).

I ment: Make it cost credits, make the shields weaker and hull stronger

posted on August 21st, 2006, 3:09 pm

i like the idea with the credit cost, ONLY the credit costs, no any other tweak beside the idea with the special energy cost

posted on August 21st, 2006, 4:14 pm

Shields SHOULD be weaker, in the show the Defiant HAS weak shields. I really dont know how come it has such strong shields in FO :S

posted on August 21st, 2006, 4:32 pm

Barron has a point the shields are way to strong

maybe lower them a bit an increase the hull points

posted on August 21st, 2006, 7:41 pm

@baron, lol, yeah i think you could use the battleship, (although the FO battleship uses the show's battlecruiser model i think)

Its as strong as a destroyer, cant really go much faster than that, I dunno what more u want -.-

wrong, it uses the medium ship physics file so it is slower, (try chasing some retreating smaller ships with it, and you'll see how quickly it gets left behind )

I ment: Make it cost credits, make the shields weaker and hull stronger

think thats what i said

i dont know whether the shields have really been made too strong or not, but tbh they are quite a bit out of proportion when compared to its hull points, (which i think should be the highest in the fed fleet). the sovie should be a close second but with far stronger shields.

posted on August 21st, 2006, 8:00 pm

@baron, lol, yeah i think you could use the battleship, (although the FO battleship uses the show's battlecruiser model i think)

Yeah it does use the battlecruiser model, Optec said the dreadnought will come to FO tho, so I hope to see it soon

QUOTE
Its as strong as a destroyer, cant really go much faster than that, I dunno what more u want -.-
wrong, it uses the medium ship physics file so it is slower, (try chasing some retreating smaller ships with it, and you'll see how quickly it gets left behind wink.gif )

U sure about that? Cause I couldnt run away from it with bugs, which are small ships I dont mind its speed increased tho

QUOTE
I ment: Make it cost credits, make the shields weaker and hull stronger
think thats what i said huh.gif

i dont know whether the shields have really been made too strong or not, but tbh they are quite a bit out of proportion when compared to its hull points, (which i think should be the highest in the fed fleet). the sovie should be a close second but with far stronger shields.

Yah I agree, shields at the lever of intrepid or akira + much stronger hull ^^

[Optec]

posted on August 22nd, 2006, 8:31 am

Last edited by Optec on August 22nd, 2006, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Defiant class is a medium sized vessel which means it takes full damage of pulse weapons and has a relatively small change to dodge torpedos. some system-disabling special weapons have already been rebalanced slightly, i will have a look at the critical shot, too. it won't cost credits.

//edit:
Energy Costs have been increased

posted on August 22nd, 2006, 7:07 pm

Will you tell us what it has been increased too? or will we have to guess. lol

posted on August 22nd, 2006, 7:41 pm

okay now, i'm the guy that coused this thread i guess, i'm the "*******" who was let to build a group of defiants, i agree though, that the special weapon should, not cost more, not cost credits, but should be able to fire just once with the special energy, as for the size, maneurability, speed, it is only natural. You all cry and cry how powerfull the defiant is, of course you send small ships against it, ktingas and bugs, offuckingcourse it will destroy that, it's built FOR SMALL SHIPS with it's pulsephaser, besides there are many ways to destroy defiants, me and baron figuered it out, use strategy not numbers of small ships, or simply use battleships and their special weapons.

[Anonymous]

posted on August 22nd, 2006, 7:56 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on August 22nd, 2006, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

okay now, i'm the guy that coused this thread i guess, i'm the "*******" who was let to build a group of defiants, i agree though, that the special weapon should, not cost more, not cost credits, but should be able to fire just once with the special energy, as for the size, maneurability, speed, it is only natural. You all cry and cry how powerfull the defiant is, of course you send small ships against it, ktingas and bugs, offuckingcourse it will destroy that, it's built FOR SMALL SHIPS with it's pulsephaser, besides there are many ways to destroy defiants, me and baron figuered it out, use strategy not numbers of small ships, or simply use battleships and their special weapons.

You started it, yes. But now EVERYONE on feds does this, its stupid and unrealistic. Defiant is not and never was a challenge for Battleships yet in FO it is, I hate that. IT IS NOT A BATTLESHIP BUT A WARSHIP, theres a difference For instance all dominion, klingon ships are warships so why arent all of them that strong then

You also can not compare a ship on basis of a TV show entirely, cause then Sovies would be invincible, now wouldnt they

posted on August 22nd, 2006, 8:01 pm

When have you aver thrown 16 battleships against the defiants, of course 1 battleship isn't a match lol that's not even the question here, becuse the fact of the matter is you ALWAYS sent tons of destroyers my way.