Federation is Unerpowered

posted on December 18th, 2010, 5:08 am

The feds are still really good, I mean their basic units are really good and if you support e2s with intrepids and monsoons then you will have a really good fleet

posted on December 19th, 2010, 12:44 pm

feds are quite fine. Akira class kicks ass, specally on vet, same as EII and the defiant. The Phaser turrets are quite strong. Supply costs not very high, quite balanced costs.

there are only 4 things i dont like at the feds:
1.they need 3 yards to produce as much ships as the other races do with 2. I know its because of warp in, but seriosly: so far i dont think a saber should take that long.
2. i hate the Warp In ... i know im gonna get shot for that ... but do you guys realy think that the feds are the only ones that react on distress calls from there own side.
3. the sovreign is a powerfull ship but its specialweapon is so dangerous to the enemy because he could fall of the chair because he had to laugh so much..
4. The torpedo turets are a total fail. Split damage sucks really, so the phaser ones are better

posted on December 19th, 2010, 3:12 pm

I summed up the average time of all of the vessels in the first shipyard that is build.  The starting base doesn't count.  Avatars are not calculated.  These figures assume that you are building these vessels one at a time.

Borg:  Average of 75.9 seconds.
Dominion:  Average of 70.0 seconds.
Federation:  Average of 85.6 seconds.
Klingon:  Average of 82.6 seconds.
Romulan:  Average of 70.5 seconds.

The Klingon basic yard can build 3 ships at once, giving them a nice advantage over the other factions by not having to build more than one yard.

The Borg build a shipyard on a per-ship basis.  As a result, as long as you have resources, you can build ships.  I've been able to get up to 3 ships going at once.  As a result, those three ships can be built in the same time as one ship.

The Federation requires three separate yards just to keep up with the Klingons.  As a result, the Klingons have a huge advantage because they only need one yard to produce as many ships as the Federation.

The Dominion and Romulans have the quickest build times and only need two yards to keep up with the Klingons and the Borg.  The Federation will have a hard time keeping up because they'll need to build a third yard.

So, in the long run, warp-ins are helpful, but the build times for the Federation at the basic yard could be dropped by about 12%, which will give them about the same average build time as the Borg.  A 15% reduction would give you just a couple of seconds behind the Romulans and Dominion.

I like the warp-in feature as well, but I think the wait time is a bit high.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 3:46 pm

Borg - micromanagement to 'keep up'...generally not worth it, go for a bigger ship.
Dominion and Romulans - fragile ships, comparatively, dominion cheap, romulan expensive.
Klingon - has to build the extensions for the yards (all three of them, in fact), supply issues.
Federation - second toughest ships on average.  Reasonably priced.  And averaging the build times doesn't work.  Canaveral and other support ships tend to build slowly, but even just one can turn a battle quickly.

Additionally, the Feds primary weapons are Beam Phasers, and Torpedos.  This makes their ships perform well against all general classes of ships.  They have good hulls, and heavy shields.  The affordability of their ships allows them to continue building when other factions have to pause.  The power of their specials further tips the scales.  The lightest, cheapest ship they have (sabre) is a long-range ship with high speed, and a speed upgrade special that improves it's defense.  The sabre can kite like no other.

Also, the Feds have a superweapon.  It's called the Akira.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 4:18 pm

lol those numbers are meaningless tcr.

klingon's rarely build the special forces extension. since the ships there are situational. i mean i love veq and susa, but a kbq will usually last longer and protect your investment better.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 5:13 pm

I think TCRs statistics really say something. EVERYTHING IS UNDERPOWERED!!!!!!   

posted on December 19th, 2010, 5:31 pm

The Federation is underpowered partly because their ships take so long to build and in order to keep up, they need more yards.  Those numbers are not meaningless.

The warp-ins provide a good temporary increase in the strength of your fleet, but in the long run, will not usually turn the tides in battles that have 20 or more ships on each side battling each other.

The Borg have the biggest advantage, especually when allied with someone, except the Federation.  A double Federation team will likely loose to a Borg team allied with someone as the other team gives the Borg a break in the weapons fire so they don't loose as many ships.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 5:40 pm

The Federation is underpowered partly because their ships take so long to build and in order to keep up, they need more yards.  Those numbers are not meaningless.

lol look at the last replay posted by ray, monsoon spam, a basic destroyer spam killed 2 bases. nfrost got huge numbers of monsoons pretty easily.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 5:48 pm

lol look at the last replay posted by ray, monsoon spam, a basic destroyer spam killed 2 bases. nfrost got huge numbers of monsoons pretty easily.

I believe it actually killed 3 bases....just to reinforce your point 

posted on December 19th, 2010, 6:08 pm

And for 1.28 times more Dilithium, 1.32 times more Tritanium, 1.80 times more supply, and 1.08 times more time to build, the Intrepid only gets 1.36 times more offensive, 1.11 times more defensive, and 1.29 more system.  Not very efficient at all.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 6:33 pm

Your maths is failing you there. In fact what you are demonstrating is that the intrepid builds fast considering it's offense and system values.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 6:50 pm

The Federation is underpowered partly because their ships take so long to build and in order to keep up, they need more yards.  Those numbers are not meaningless.

The warp-ins provide a good temporary increase in the strength of your fleet, but in the long run, will not usually turn the tides in battles that have 20 or more ships on each side battling each other.

The Borg have the biggest advantage, especually when allied with someone, except the Federation.  A double Federation team will likely loose to a Borg team allied with someone as the other team gives the Borg a break in the weapons fire so they don't loose as many ships.

I disagree with this completely. Fed ships are very strong and can take a beating plus one special will make a difference in a battle. The remore's special can make just about about every fed ship more effective because of that torpedo special.
Two feds will steamroll just about everyone in a team game, those warp ins add up really fast and their ships usually can last longer then everyone else's

posted on December 19th, 2010, 6:58 pm

I think the big thing now is aesthetic balance.

IE: Give the ships the guns they should have.

Sabre, give it full time photons (once ranked up at least)
Akira: Torpedo foutain

etc etc.

Then just balance down the strength of weapons on them so it's not over powering. (IE: give the Akira 5-6 torpedos, but make them do about the same damage as before, have the Sabre's Photons do the same damage as teh quantum pulse on a sabre).

posted on December 19th, 2010, 7:42 pm

The time is irrelevant.  It's the resource costs to the vessels offensive, defensive, and system values that's the problem.  A player is going to spend about 1.3 times more Dilithium and Tritanium to get a vessel that is only 1.25 times more powerful than the other vessel.

If you built 11 Intrepids, and your opponent built 14 Monsoons, you would have more firepower, and finish your fleet faster, but your opponent would have better defenses overall that outweighed your Intrepid fleet.  You would spend 171 less Dilithium, 122 more Tritanium, and 58 more Supplies than your opponent.  You would have your fleet up 162 seconds before he does, but with you having only 13 Offensive advantage and your opponent having a 32 Defensive advantage over you, your fleet would be wiped out while at least a couple of his ships survived.  If your opponent double-yarded and you didn't, he would finish his fleet 370 seconds before you did.  Your Intrepid fleet wouldn't stand a chance!  And it would only cost your opponent 800 more Dilithium, and 200 more Tritanium to build the weaker Monsoons much faster than your Intrepids.

By the way, the Monsoon has a 10% damage reduction from Intrepid weapons because Intrepids are short-ranged.  And Intrepids don't have any damage reduction from Monsoons (according to the guide).  So that means that the opponents defensive value is 277 instead of 252.  Your defensive value remains 220.  Your 209 offensive over the opponents 196 offensive won't be able to cancel-out the Monsoons increased defensive value against the Intrepids.

posted on December 19th, 2010, 7:44 pm

In that case why would you go intrepids if you see your opponent spamming monsoons?