What do you think will/would happen to the Cardassians (post
What's your favourite episode? How is romulan ale brewed? - Star Trek in general :-)
posted on June 24th, 2010, 8:13 pm
silent93 wrote:Where would they get them? From the bombed out slag of Cardassia Prime. Gold is gold, and it's not hard to melt it into shape for trade.
Why would there be no ban? The Ferengi and Orions have no bans on trading anything to anyone. They even run blockades to make sales if the price is right.
Why would they risk another war? They were willing to go to war with the federation because there were 100 native americans who refused to leave their homes after the borders were redrawn.
The Cardassians are not complacent, peaceful, or humble. Throughout their appearances on TNG and DS9, we've seen an aggressive, relentless species who would risk their entire civilization over a point of pride. They're like resource-starved, discipline-obsessed, sneaky Klingons.
Sorry but everything you wrote here was just 100% wrong.
Cardassia is in ruins. They aren't going to say "rip up what little is left and use it to get weapons instead of rebuilding things!".
The Cardassians would have nothing of value to give the Ferengi and the Ferengi under Rom aren't likely to break interstellar law for latinum (which the Cardassians probably lack anyways) and a chance to plunge the quadrant into another war.
You are comparing the Cardassian willingness to go to war at the height of their power with Cardassian willingness to go to war... after they are in total ruins and just lost one of the biggest wars the Quadrant has ever seen? What?!
The Klingons stopped fighting when a major moon was destroyed. The Cardassians just lost most of their Homeworld (and their greatest minds and architecture) and a ton of their Empire.
Are you starting to get an idea on why what you've said makes zero sense? Please correct me if I've somehow misunderstood you.
posted on June 24th, 2010, 9:18 pm
An interesting conversation, and not to hijack thread but it got me thinking. We know little of the Breen, how did the end of the war impact them. This question jumped to my mind the other day after posting, and this is where my mind went with it.
We know the Breen are a confederacy, and that got me thinking about ancient Greece and how their alliances with the other Greek states formed them as a confederacy. If this is the case with the Breen, then we can assume several worlds fall under different Breen factions authority. I think it's safe to also assume that the Breen homeworld that is so mysterious is the strongest of these factions and generally guides most of them as leader's of the majority alliance. However, just like Greece's Athens, a second powerful faction of Spartan like Breens could be waiting for them to slip-up and make an error. Giving them the chance to claim that power of authority over the other factions. Now I'm not entirely presuming they are "Spartan" like, but a second faction similar to the houses that govern the Klingon Empire might be waiting for an opportunity to take over...
We could 'loosely' assume that the Breens sudden emergence into the war on the Dominions side might have been a sign that they were already losing a power struggle within their own ranks and that this unlikely interest in outside affairs was a way of trying to regain that control or distract from political opposition. Though this maybe reading into the early events between the Breen and the Dominion to much.
However we look at it though, if the Breen are a confederation, which is a weak form of government, I think it is most likely after the Dominion War ended that the Breen probably entered into a civil war. Unlike Cardassia which suffered greatly at the conclusion of the war, Breen worlds where rarely touched (assuming they were at all!). Even the Federation suffered the losses of notable worlds in the conflict, but I can't think of a hint that suggests the Breen were ever really in that position.
So with their power base mostly intact, besides whatever losses during the war and the reparations "they" had to pay after, they seemed most likely ready to have a long, drawn out bloody conflict with each other. After all, if the faction that lost the Dominion War had to suffer the war's losses and pay reparations, their once weak by comparison rivals might stand a huge chance of over throwing them and claiming control for the foreseeable future. How they run the Breen however, is a question as mysterious as the race seemed to be for so long to begin with...
This is just my take on the Breen. From what I know and surmised, and I'm interested in hearing others opinions on what they think would have happened, and why. Again, this is not to steal thread from OP, but merely moving on from the arguments that seem to be popping up. If OP wishes, I'll make this its own thread, but placed it here to honor OP, for asking a question that would put me on an inspired path to this one and the answers it will hopefully offer.
Regards,
-Grey
We know the Breen are a confederacy, and that got me thinking about ancient Greece and how their alliances with the other Greek states formed them as a confederacy. If this is the case with the Breen, then we can assume several worlds fall under different Breen factions authority. I think it's safe to also assume that the Breen homeworld that is so mysterious is the strongest of these factions and generally guides most of them as leader's of the majority alliance. However, just like Greece's Athens, a second powerful faction of Spartan like Breens could be waiting for them to slip-up and make an error. Giving them the chance to claim that power of authority over the other factions. Now I'm not entirely presuming they are "Spartan" like, but a second faction similar to the houses that govern the Klingon Empire might be waiting for an opportunity to take over...
We could 'loosely' assume that the Breens sudden emergence into the war on the Dominions side might have been a sign that they were already losing a power struggle within their own ranks and that this unlikely interest in outside affairs was a way of trying to regain that control or distract from political opposition. Though this maybe reading into the early events between the Breen and the Dominion to much.
However we look at it though, if the Breen are a confederation, which is a weak form of government, I think it is most likely after the Dominion War ended that the Breen probably entered into a civil war. Unlike Cardassia which suffered greatly at the conclusion of the war, Breen worlds where rarely touched (assuming they were at all!). Even the Federation suffered the losses of notable worlds in the conflict, but I can't think of a hint that suggests the Breen were ever really in that position.
So with their power base mostly intact, besides whatever losses during the war and the reparations "they" had to pay after, they seemed most likely ready to have a long, drawn out bloody conflict with each other. After all, if the faction that lost the Dominion War had to suffer the war's losses and pay reparations, their once weak by comparison rivals might stand a huge chance of over throwing them and claiming control for the foreseeable future. How they run the Breen however, is a question as mysterious as the race seemed to be for so long to begin with...
This is just my take on the Breen. From what I know and surmised, and I'm interested in hearing others opinions on what they think would have happened, and why. Again, this is not to steal thread from OP, but merely moving on from the arguments that seem to be popping up. If OP wishes, I'll make this its own thread, but placed it here to honor OP, for asking a question that would put me on an inspired path to this one and the answers it will hopefully offer.
Regards,
-Grey
posted on June 24th, 2010, 9:22 pm
I've normally seen the Breen entry into the war as the Founders work rather than their own choice. The Dominion only normally seem to take prisoners if they intend to replace them, and they had at least one Breen prisoner.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 12:23 am
No problem.
I'm not sure where we would start with understanding the Breen. We know very little other then that their homeworld isn't nearly as cold as everyone was led to believe and that they are even more secretive then the Romulans.
I'm not sure where we would start with understanding the Breen. We know very little other then that their homeworld isn't nearly as cold as everyone was led to believe and that they are even more secretive then the Romulans.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 1:57 am
Gorgo Primus wrote:Sorry but everything you wrote here was just 100% wrong.
Cardassia is in ruins. They aren't going to say "rip up what little is left and use it to get weapons instead of rebuilding things!".
The Cardassians would have nothing of value to give the Ferengi and the Ferengi under Rom aren't likely to break interstellar law for latinum (which the Cardassians probably lack anyways) and a chance to plunge the quadrant into another war.
You are comparing the Cardassian willingness to go to war at the height of their power with Cardassian willingness to go to war... after they are in total ruins and just lost one of the biggest wars the Quadrant has ever seen? What?!
The Klingons stopped fighting when a major moon was destroyed. The Cardassians just lost most of their Homeworld (and their greatest minds and architecture) and a ton of their Empire.
Are you starting to get an idea on why what you've said makes zero sense? Please correct me if I've somehow misunderstood you.
Rip up what little is left? If you can strip gold, or latinum, or dilithium dust, or even some duranium scrap from the shattered, otherwise useless ruins, you can sell it. You expect them to just leave the scrap laying around? If they have to build an infrastructure again, then they are unlikely to have the facilities to reprocess it themselves.
The Klingons stopped fighting when the moon that they had foolishly dedicated to providing almost all of their power (somehow) exploded like Chernobyl and if they continued to fight, every last Klingon was guaranteed to die. It's a bit different there.
As for interstellar law, there's no such thing. Just the law of the species who's space you're in, and a couple treaties that aren't universal. If Rom was unwilling to ship, say, starship-grade phaser arrays through Federation space, he could simply go around. And that's assuming that Rom had direct control over all Ferengi merchants...which would be impossible.
All it would take is one person willing to say 'rebuild this NOW' and odds are good that the Cardassians would junk what couldn't be repaired, sell the scrap for all the stuff they need to rebuild, and get things going again ASAP. And to think that once they rebuilt things enough they wouldn't move to reclaim their systems that were given away to the Breen and such? The greatest insult dealt to the Cardassian people was when the Dominion started giving Cardassian systems as gifts to other species. Why would they ever let that stand if they had any choice at all in the matter?
posted on June 25th, 2010, 3:14 am
silent93 wrote:The Cardassians are not complacent, peaceful, or humble. Throughout their appearances on TNG and DS9, we've seen an aggressive, relentless species who would risk their entire civilization over a point of pride. They're like resource-starved, discipline-obsessed, sneaky Klingons.
It has been stated before that the Cardassians were once a peaceful and very spiritual people with vibrant artists and musicians. However, because Cardassia Prime was a very resource poor planet there was massive starvation and poverty so the military took over and conquered new worlds to basically strip mine them. Just because they are a proud people that dont back down when threatened, doesnt mean they are by nature warlike. This I see as a chance for the Cardassians to get back to their roots and start over, the right way and Id bet the Federation sees it that way too, and they would do anything in their power to make that happen.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 4:26 am
Last edited by navyguy on June 25th, 2010, 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Its good to see the CARDASSIAN'S are not forgotten.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:19 pm
Very true Gorgo Primus and Tyler. Especially Tyler's note on the Breen that had been captured and detained at a Dominion facility. I'd forgotten about that till you mentioned it, that Breen could have been anyone from a high ranking military official to a head of state! They sadly never tell us and leave us to speculate, which is often the best way to write something into a plot, given the races tendencies to remain mysterious. As Gorgo Primus put it, they are more mysterious than the Romulas, at least at this point in Trek history.
The topic of their homeworld is also interesting, for a long time it was presumed by many to be a cold, frozen world, and that the Breen wore those suits to keep their body temperatures down to the levels they needed to feel comfortable or live. But with Weynoun's announcement that it's really a tropical world and quite nice, that leaves us to wonder why the Breen wore those suits and how or why the rumor was started that their homeworld was cold. Perhaps the frozen world being mentioned is merely another 'homeworld' to another faction of the Breen, given that they're a Confederacy. That or it's the greatest rumor ever started by a state power to confuse an enemy. Though that just raises the question, what enemy have they been trying to deceive for so long with the idea that they are from a cold world. The only thing that jumps to mind is that they maybe another power in the Temporal Cold War and rivals to the Tholians. I personally think that this latter case is a bit more unlikely compared to the other faction 'homeworld' idea though, but that is just my two cents and given that this is science fiction I wanted to mention it as a possibility.
Regards,
-Grey
The topic of their homeworld is also interesting, for a long time it was presumed by many to be a cold, frozen world, and that the Breen wore those suits to keep their body temperatures down to the levels they needed to feel comfortable or live. But with Weynoun's announcement that it's really a tropical world and quite nice, that leaves us to wonder why the Breen wore those suits and how or why the rumor was started that their homeworld was cold. Perhaps the frozen world being mentioned is merely another 'homeworld' to another faction of the Breen, given that they're a Confederacy. That or it's the greatest rumor ever started by a state power to confuse an enemy. Though that just raises the question, what enemy have they been trying to deceive for so long with the idea that they are from a cold world. The only thing that jumps to mind is that they maybe another power in the Temporal Cold War and rivals to the Tholians. I personally think that this latter case is a bit more unlikely compared to the other faction 'homeworld' idea though, but that is just my two cents and given that this is science fiction I wanted to mention it as a possibility.
Regards,
-Grey
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:21 pm
maybe someone just started a baseless rumour, and the breen didn't care to correct it.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
myleswolfers wrote:maybe someone just started a baseless rumour, and the breen didn't care to correct it.
Haha! If so, some people have done a lot of work to add to it! Their is a lot of frozen and cold references to the Breen way before they ever show up on screen.
Regards,
-Grey
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:23 pm
rumours can self perpetuate, its doubtful anyone had real knowledge/evidence about the breen, it may have just been a rumour that got repeated over and over.
well actually kira knows what the suits contain, she has stolen the suit off a breen's back twice, but never told anyone on screen.
well actually kira knows what the suits contain, she has stolen the suit off a breen's back twice, but never told anyone on screen.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:28 pm
True. I'd love to read the debriefing of that final mission of the Dominion War. What's going on inside a Breen suit? Well we clearly know now that it is most unlikely to keep them cool, or closer to their native climate temp.
Regards,
-Grey
Regards,
-Grey
posted on June 25th, 2010, 7:58 pm
Maybe they just live in the Polar Regions?
And Kira deactivated the refrigerator in the suit to not get molted into insta-ice?
And Kira deactivated the refrigerator in the suit to not get molted into insta-ice?
posted on June 25th, 2010, 8:01 pm
maybe the suit serves another purpose. maybe on their homeplanet they can survive without tech, but to leave they need a suit, maybe it is to give them an atmosphere they can breathe, or a radiation they need to surive, or some other thing.
posted on June 25th, 2010, 8:12 pm
That would make sense. Why world a race evolve where they can't survive? That would be like Humans evolving in space but not being able to survive there.
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