ST XI *SPOILER WARNING*

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:09 pm

but if someone were to tell you it;s chinese silk you would ask "who or what is chinese".. that does open up a can of worms...

so much for the early exploring mind of starfleet....

- he this is romulan ale
- ok. thank you. I like romulan as an adjective, it sounds so intoxicating and goes well with booze.
I dont want to know anything more about that word... it may be a race or may be an adjective meaning blue. but i dont care. let's get drunk....  

[Redshirt]

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:11 pm

Last edited by Redshirt on May 11th, 2009, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just as Romulan ale was available in the Federation although they kept hiding.

You do not necessarily need to have been there or even know the producer to know a product.

It's like buying Chinese silk from Arabians without ever having visited China.

Or maybe the Federation encountered a Cardassian scout while investigating the anomaly caused by Nero's temporal incursion.  

It's not that ridiculous to imagine that they just met each other sooner than they would have in a different timeline.  After all, so many things are dependent on random chance anyway, and that all but guarantees that things are going to happen quite differently now that events progress forward once again.  Two lines [I'm sorry; I meant rays.  Lines don't have starting points, mathematically.] with the same starting point aren't guaranteed to have the same domain.

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:24 pm

well anything is possible now. not just cause and effect, but as you said a ship in a place for a chance encounter where it would not have been in the prime line..

if the kelvin were to survive the feds would have no ships in sector X where they may encounter cardassian ship dukat. Now due to the kelvion's loss sfleet redeploys teh fleet and ends up meeting them...

as i said we can chalk everything up atm to continuity and timeline.

however, in the next movie, rules will become tighter based on what is revealed further in this new universe.

who knows, we may see cardies and the borg sooner now. hopefully even the dominion..

it would be interesting for sure to see how kirk and spock react to the borg and the prospects of assimilation.

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:27 pm

but if someone were to tell you it;s chinese silk you would ask "who or what is chinese".. that does open up a can of worms...

so much for the early exploring mind of starfleet....

- he this is romulan ale
- ok. thank you. I like romulan as an adjective, it sounds so intoxicating and goes well with booze.
I dont want to know anything more about that word... it may be a race or may be an adjective meaning blue. but i dont care. let's get drunk....  

If the price is right you never gonna ask questions

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:28 pm

or the cardassians were in the Vulcan database

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:34 pm

If the price is right you never gonna ask questions

price is right? for booze?

lol. that's for some of our more sobriety-challenged community members

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:35 pm

I noticed another thing...Scotty had a tribble on his desk in what looked like a bird cage. 

[Lt.Cdr.White]

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Last edited by Lt.Cdr.White on May 11th, 2009, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

By the way:

Does anyone have canonical data about first encounter with the Cardassians? Knowledge about their existance in the Federation?

Because Memory Alpha just states something about expansion in ancient times... everything is a bit vague:

Cardassian - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:15 am

check the tng listing.

there's an episode where the cardies are introduced and the feds are chasing a renegade fed captain who's destroying cardies.

it gives us a fair approximation of when they were encountered
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Wounded_(episode).

[Lt.Cdr.White]

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:25 am

Last edited by Lt.Cdr.White on May 12th, 2009, 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, right, the thing with the Stargazer.

Memory Alpha states that the first war between the Federation and Cardassia began in 2347.

However, there is still no real evidence about when the first contact between Cardassians and the Federation really happened.

They started their expansion before 2328 (which was when they conquered Bajor).

Federation-Cardassian War - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
Cardassian history - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

Ah, interesting, here's something about the never occured mentioning of the date (the part in italics):

Cardassian history - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

So after all, there is no canon source for it except Star Trek (2009).

However, this seems to point to some time before 2245: Iloja of Prim - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

[Anonymous]

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:42 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 12th, 2009, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

that's fine. except if a race as important as the cardassians were ever to be met in kirk's time we would have to heard of them in TOS as we did all the races that were encounteredin kirk's era - the tholians, gorn, romulans, klings, etc.

A major power as relevant as the cardassians would surely not have been left out of the enterprise's missions. But it yet was. hence we accept that the cardies were encountered between the end of undiscovered country and the beginning of TNG - about the same time as picard was captain of hte Stargazer...

one point of interest is as follows:

picard lowered his shields as captain of the stargazer when he encountered a cardassian vessel. The fact that he lowered his shields in front of a cardassian vessel indicates the feds had not had much contact with them before hand. in fact this was even before the war - of course no sensible cpt  would lower his shields in front of a romulan warbird as a miscalculation of the situation and risk getting fired upon - epecailly after having faced hem in a war as the Sgazer served in the fed-cardy war.

this puts picard's encounter between 2333 and 2347.

If the feds had such little contact knowledge of them at this point of time, it is unlikely they would have encountered them at kirk's time. Also, given cardassian behavior, their treachery and aggression would be noted in Sfleet records. If they were, Picard would be aware of how to deal with these cardies while on the Sgazer.

it is therefore more likely that the cardies came into contact with the feds between 2310-2335. not kirk's period.


but as we said, let's assume it was a known name through trade and exchange of goods - like tholian silk and romulan ale... with no one actually knowing where the recipe came from.

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:53 am

But if their expansion politics caused by lack of resources started somewhat before 2328, there is the possibility that they weren't such a power back in the day but just another people living somewhere at the boarder of the Federation.

Also, look at the Federation council in the Kirk era movies.

There were many species we never saw in TOS. Would that mean they never met them before?

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:53 am

but as was stated earlier, they didn't begin expansion untill they conquered bajor, so maybe they had met the federation, but they were not a major race at the time.

Darn you beat me to it

posted on May 12th, 2009, 12:55 am

posted on May 12th, 2009, 1:45 am

But if their expansion politics caused by lack of resources started somewhat before 2328, there is the possibility that they weren't such a power back in the day but just another people living somewhere at the boarder of the Federation.

Also, look at the Federation council in the Kirk era movies.

There were many species we never saw in TOS. Would that mean they never met them before?

possible.

but it is still controversial.

The date of first contact between the Federation and the Cardassian Union has never been established, although most fans assume that it was sometime in the first two decades of the 24th century due to the lack of any Cardassian mention in 23rd century backstories. Conversely, the Cardassian Iloja of Prim was in exile on Vulcan during the lifetime of Tobin Dax, i.e. before 2245. (DS9: "Destiny") Akorem Laan, who disappeared from Bajor in the late 22nd century also knew about Cardassians, indicating that first contact has already happened by that time. (DS9: "Accession") Cardassians and Humans also traveled in the same area of space as early as 2154. (ENT: "Observer Effect")

so i guess either assumption will do as it was never clearly established...