The Unnofficial 3rd Avatar Addon

posted on August 3rd, 2009, 11:28 pm

I know the book you're talking about, "The Return" by Shatner.

The USS Monitor, I think that's what it's called (The Black-Ops Defiant) is not part of S31; it is, in fact, a regular Starfleet vessel, but with a black hull (amongst other stealth tech)

Although it would be interesting for S31 to have one too... although it may be difficult to replicate the 'semi-cloak'.

posted on August 4th, 2009, 12:33 am

Yeah i know it didnt mention if it was or not, but even if it isnt a section 31, its seems very section 31ish

posted on August 4th, 2009, 1:45 pm

Yeah i know it didnt mention if it was or not, but even if it isnt a section 31, its seems very section 31ish

Why does it matter if it is section 31-ish? I don't think there is any mention of newer ships being used by them, they are just too high-profile to go unnoticed.

posted on August 4th, 2009, 6:06 pm

Thats because they dont say much about section 31, the only ship we know they did stuff on was the pegasus

however, im sorry a black special ops defiant, theyd be using that for covert im sure,

and while i said i love his idea for section 31 avatar i disagree with mainly his maistream use of just the one shipyard,

i love the older ship ideas, but the defiant is a small fast powerful ship, that seems perfect for them, and i could see them beiung the ones who use the experimental ships when there still experimental

basically, i think a section 31 avatar should be geared toward section 31, all the way from the ship systems to any additional adons to the trasporter special weapons etc,

for instance giving the intrepid a stealth mode, and same with defiant, in addition, or not to there normal special weapon

i also agree with the older ships, its awsome, newer tech on older ships, thats not just what i think 31 would do, but what starfleet does

however if it was  section 31 avatar, i disagree with no larger ship from the bigger yard, the defiant should be section 31 geared, and maybye the excelsior 2

but mainly i think that you should also be able to build those larger ships, such as the sovy, but at a cap

posted on August 4th, 2009, 6:28 pm

Thats because they dont say much about section 31, the only ship we know they did stuff on was the pegasus

Pegasus, or Prometheus?  If you actually meant Pegasus, could I see a pic, cus I am always interested to see a ship I've never herd of.  I never read the books so I have no Idea if you are talking about cannon, or them.

posted on August 4th, 2009, 6:43 pm

USS Pegasus - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

its cannon

posted on August 4th, 2009, 6:55 pm

Oh, an obereth.  Darn I thought it was something cool. *ducks*

[HawkShark]

posted on August 4th, 2009, 8:24 pm

Last edited by HawkShark on August 4th, 2009, 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Pegasus being S31 is conjecture. In fact there isnt a single canon instance of S31 having a whole ship to themselves. Worse yet, its VERY against their Modus Operandi... The same way a spy network or fifth column doesn't broadcast its existence with a ship; s31 wouldn't be so crass as to have one either. I can see S31 having a hidden base buried in an scan resistant asteroid, but not ships. Their activities don't even seem to require a ship, much less a fleet.

Since i'm sure someone will bring it up ill take up this one preemptively, the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar having ships. The Tal Shiar has ships and has for a while, because its an open secret. Their reputation is just as important to their activites as their very ability to engage in such actions. Besides the Tal Shiar has incredible power in the Romulan govt, dirt on every senator etc. They also would never have engaged in so blatant an action as the Battle of the Omarion Nebula if not for the changeling infiltration. The Obsidian Order didn't have any ships at all until it was under the threat of Dominion infiltration too. Besides the military dictatorship of the Cardassians was shocked at the 5th columns existence. But under normal circumstances they (IE: war, peace etc.) they wouldn't have any reason to have their own ships. Only strange situations (IE: perfect infiltrators, borg?) would drive an intelligence agency to use combat vessels and jeopardize their agents as though they were grunts.

Edit: Also, even with the immense resources of both those intel agencies they still only manages to put together a fleet of 2-dozen vessels. An activity and loss so great it was able to make the Obsidian Order such a non-entity that it ceased to exist and was replaced.

posted on August 4th, 2009, 8:34 pm

1st off in that episode it stated that the enterprise would be picking up a operative from stafleer inteligence

In anpther episode riker mentioned pressman being in a sewcret program,

pressman also states was "for the good of the Federation" and Section 31 states as propaganda that they work for the good of the Federation.

either way section 31 or not i disagree with your saying 31 would have no ships im sure they and inteligence would have there own ships most of them smaller, but theyd probably be using the defiant, and a few larger high tech ones,

but even so, i dont see y everybody here is trying to argue with cannoninity

yes i know im using it to back myself up however, this isnt the show, if it were im sre there would be a bunch of changes, we can be creative, y cant we have an avatar for 31 that has ships? would you prefer them to not have ships at all? and the 31 avatar starts out with nothing at all?

especially since we dotn know alot about 31 we can make stuff up

posted on August 4th, 2009, 8:51 pm

On your first point, Star fleet Intelligence =/= S31
Thats also your second point... And While im sure there are tons of secret programs we can't assume that S31 is involved in them all. We also hear Kirk, Picard, and Sisko say things about being "for the good of the Federation" and they're not S31 operatives. Don't jump to the conclusion that just because an action is secret and unsavory it must be S31. Sisko getting the Romulans into the Dominion war is the perfect example.

You're more than welcome to disagree, but you might want to come up with logical reasons why you disagree. The Defiant is a combat ship not designed for long deployments, that means it needs to make port. As unless you're proposing thousands of hidden bases throughout the federation that means those Defiant class ships would have to risk being seen and noticed by docking. As for having big high tech ships, why? Their mission isn't intelligence. They're around to do the things the military and the intelligence agencies wont do. You don't need a battleship for that, that gets you noticed.

As for the issue of canon, i agree. We don't need to follow canon perfectly... But we should follow common sense. An Oberth works, they're common, nondescript, small enough to hide and cheap enough to not be noticed in a black budget. But S31 is never going to commandeer a star base and a fleet, they've spent 300 years staying hidden and helping through tiny little pushes and pull... They would never do anything to brazen, again its outside of their MO.

You wanna make an intel based character, use SF Intelligence. Realize they wont have Galaxy class ships (for example) though, since it's a science platform, with fleet command capacity. Nor will they use Sovereigns or Defiant. Both are too expensive to risk in intel ops. What you'd prolly see from something like that is Sabers, Novas or refitted Oberths. Small, fast, with good sensors.

Also, back on the canon thing. Read the books, the authors put a lot of work into creating a background and mythos for S31.

posted on August 19th, 2009, 2:01 am

/up/

So, any news?

posted on August 25th, 2009, 7:08 pm

/up/

So, any news?

Still waiting for the next FO patch before I release this. Other then that it's pretty much done.

posted on August 25th, 2009, 7:19 pm

Neato mate

By the way, nice wiki 

posted on August 25th, 2009, 9:20 pm

an idea for ships for the borgs avatar..
there was a mod a few yrs ago called alliances, basicly turning the selected race into a alliance of a quadrant, and reading your post reminded me of all the ships of the delta quadrant with the kazon, the predators and all the others.

posted on August 25th, 2009, 9:31 pm

Wow. Looks cool! 

My only (albeit small) complaint would be the name of Sela's second special unit. "Shadow Wing Battleship" sounds a bit too fanboyish for my taste. Maybe you could come up with a Romulan name for that one?

Oh and are there any other changes for the Section 31 avatar? Because at the moment it seems a bit underpowered to me (although I really dig the idea of it not having any battleships!). Or maybe it's just intended for skillful players?

For Selas new Unit  a suggested few names  could be  : a Wraith Class  battleship , Harpie class or A banshee class battleship just a few  names to Infer its stated mission of  being a stealthly  ship  with a big bunch.