Federation ships.

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:00 pm

Okay so i was reading threw the galaxy thread i made so long ago.... optec mentioned the galaxy is old so thats why it was in warp in, he said that warp in was for all the old ships.

So lets see:
These are dates of first build

Steamrunner: 2370

Akira: 2370

Intrepid: 2370

Olympic class: 2370

Nova: Mid 24th century

Defiant: 2370

Prometheus: later 2370s

Sovy: 2370

Nebula: 2363-2367

My point is this so the nebula and steamrunner classes, are refered to as outdated, even tho they were produced at about the same time.

So you may say that this is the 2390s but then shouldnt the other ships start to be replaced, or have refits?

[Tyler]

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:03 pm

Last edited by Tyler on May 15th, 2010, 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Age of production is unknown; we only have registries and appearance to go by, which are not very helpful alone. Registry orders are unknown and appearance tends to be similar by era rather than class.

Nebula Class are quite abit older than the Galaxy. Registry numbers would also imply the Akira is also older, along with the Sabre, Steamrunner, Norway and several others.

The way it is tries to sort it out with little to no canon to fall back on.

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:10 pm

well i just looked them up in memory alpha, i guess i would just think, either the steamrunner would be in normal production, or ships like akira and maybe intrepid would be reffited or not there

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:15 pm

You make a good point, Ray.  But think of it this way:

  The Defiant may have been 2370, but it was DESIGNED only once the borg invasion occurred.  Their must be a design period for all these ships.  Someone doesn't just dream them into existence.


 The nebula and the Galaxy (I assume) were built basically in an "era" of ship-building that was different than the later vessels.

 Remember the vessels we saw in the Wolf 359 graveyard?  Granted, those were kitbashes just made to show a big slaughter and then never used again, but they were indicative of an era of vessels that were likely created as part of a larger building and development plan.

 For example, the British created a large number of new classes of Battleships DURING World War I that were technically the most advanced they had for that time period.  All the different classes had different purposes or improved in some small way over the others.  Those came into action late in the war and rendered the older ones obsolete, even though the older ones still made up a large chunk of their fleet (like the Miranda's and Excel I's in DS9).  The newer ships were present, yes, and once the war ended they stayed in service all the way into WW2, but by that point they were also considered antiquated.  Again, they were USED, but sometimes with disastrous results.  The Warships Repulse, Warspite, Barham, and most famously the HMS Hood were relics of the WW1 jump in technology.  All bu thte Warpsite met a grisly end to newer methods of war.  In fact, the Warspite was in the thick of fighting against the Germans and Italians throughout the entire war.  It just wouldn't sink! .  The Hood was destroyed with ease by the German Bismarck because it's decks were not designed to withstand "plunging" shellfire from a high arc.  They knew that and did a straight run at the Bismarck to try and force them to lower their angles onto the thicker side armor, but took a few shells through the deck and into the magazine.

  Anyway, the ships that result from a period of conflict and rapid development usually share characteristics of one another (Nebula and Galaxy for example) and hang around well up to the next major conflict that requires another upswing in research and development.  The Dominion War is the best example of that.  All the old ships from previous wars (Cardassian War, Klingon War) are still around and in strong numbers, but really are not the cutting edge anymore.

  Thus you get the Steamrunner, Norway, Akira, Intrepid, (most of which were created JUST for the First Contact Battle ) that are newer as the result of a new conflict.  They will stay around until they are rendered antiquated by ANOTHER conflict that gives birth to a new breed of vessels.
 
  Fleetops gives us the pleasure of keeping some of our favorite TNG/DS9 vessels through the Warp-in.  They are supposed to be a "last resort" force of ships that should not really be in battle anymore but can be called upon just in case.


  Technically, the Steamrunner first appeared alongside the Akira and Norways in First Contact, so I never understood why it was a Warp-in.  I kinda assumed that it was because they were specialist units and therefore rare.

  Thus, Miranda's, Constitution's, Constellation's (:(), won't be a warp-in because they are old even by TNG standards.  Excel I's were brand new for TMP times and thus were used so extensively that they stuck around .

 Hope that helps.  That's how I assume it goes.

[cabal]

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:35 pm

Last edited by cabal on May 15th, 2010, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I would think that the production order was:

Olympic
Galaxy
Nebula
Intrepid
Akira/Steamrunner/Norway
Defiant
Sovereign
Nova
Prometheus

My position on the Intrepid is that the variable geometry pylons seem like they may have been designed to get around the problem with warp fields damaging subspace, which was introduced in the episode "Force of Nature."

EDIT: Ninja'd by Boggz

posted on May 15th, 2010, 11:37 pm

Nebula's were alreay in proper use when the Galaxy was new. An Intrepid was around in TNG, before the Warp problem was known to Starfleet.

That one probably didn't have variable-geomatry nacelles, though.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 16th, 2010, 12:45 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 16th, 2010, 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fleetops gives us the pleasure of keeping some of our favorite TNG/DS9 vessels through the Warp-in.  They are supposed to be a "last resort" force of ships that should not really be in battle anymore but can be called upon just in case.

I understand you're explaining this to Ray320 at a developers point of view, but for logical intents and purposes that argument still doesn't hold water. The reason being that the Galaxy, Excelsior, and Miranda were still in full production during the Dominion War. The developers of Star Trek Online even stated that the Galaxy was one of the most successful class of starships during the war, and operated without a loss.

The upgraded Lakota managed to cause moderate damage to the Defiant, and although she was in worse shape at the end of the battle, it was very good performance for a 100 year old design.

Lets also think back to TNG, "The Wounded." Gul Macet described the Nebula Class as having, "a huge aresenal." Yet in fleetops, its limited to warp-in, given weak pulse phasers instead of long range torpedoes, and similarly useless ability. Frankly, I'm disappointed in having these ships severely limited in both stats and not being able to be built at a shipyard. Even worse, Fleetops has nerfed Starfleet Command so you have to build StarFleet Science and Starfleet engineering.

The term "old," doesn't seem to be a word that can be used properly to describe the Galaxy, Excelsior, Miranda. This is because of the fact that they enjoyed long service lives, proved very useful, and versatile. Even Captain Kirk said, "a ship can be 100 years old, and shaped like a rattle, but the bugs are long gone."

Therefore, I will never accept the fact or see the point in making ships like the Galaxy warp-in. If ships are made warp in just because of their relative age to other ships in the production line, then ships like  the Bird of Prey, Vor'cha, and Romulan Warbird  should be long gone and made warp-in.

posted on May 16th, 2010, 12:59 am

... and yet Starfleet Command still is overpowered

The Nebula is a great ship, and I hope to get one every time if I am raiding. Not only does it allow me to see pretty much the entire battlefield if I'm not in combat, but it absolutely destroys freighters and destroyers (yes, your 'weak' pulses). Fleet Ops isn't designed to be your personal Federation mod - that doesn't mean you can't make it so, but it doesn't fit this game in multiplayer in the slightest. Gameplay will always beat the shows and movies. What else do you expect when the Federation wins at everything forever?

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:01 am

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on May 16th, 2010, 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

There's nothing "nerfed" by building both research stations before the SFC can be acquired.
The warpin-feature was too powerful in early game phases, and especially the nebula class caused this; because of its "weak" pulses which destroy small ships quite fast. Also the Nebula is a damage-soaker due to the good defense value.

FleetOps: Ships don't get everything canon, but useful for the game.

Do you really want to have Nebula and Akira with most equal weapons so both fit the exact same role? Boring. That's what FleetOps doesn't need: Different ships with equal purpose in one faction.

And what's so bad about not being able of building Galaxies and Excelsiors while you can build Sovereigns and Defiants instead?

One last thing, there is absolutely no reason to compare klingon or romulan older designs with fed ones.
Most klingon and romulan vessels in FO actually are new, just like many of the federation ships.
Also there is a big difference in the mentality of those factions, klingons may consider "old" much different than a federation captain or a romulan commander. Klingons love to die in battle. Old ships = dying in battle is easy. Great thing if you are klingon.  

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:12 am

constellation is back!!!!

yes starfleet command is op, but fed is not the best race out there

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:33 am

You make a good point, Ray.  But think of it this way:

  The Defiant may have been 2370, but it was DESIGNED only once the borg invasion occurred.  Their must be a design period for all these ships.  Someone doesn't just dream them into existence.

So was the Steamrunner! Maybe the dev's should include it as a build able ship from the Borg mixed tech yard!

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:35 am

Steamrunners are the oldest Federation class in the game, except for the Excelsior.

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:42 am

Hugh? Are you sure? My handy dandy book tells me that it was designed as part of the Borg Defense Taskforce.

[Tyler]

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:45 am

Last edited by Tyler on May 16th, 2010, 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

The only anti-Borg ship is the Defiant.

Regitries aren't good for ship-by-ship, but can give a basic idea of a classes age. TOS had 4-digits starting with 1, TMP had 4 & 5-digits starting with 1 & 2, TNG had old ships with similar numbers to TMP and newer ship with number starting with 6 & 7.

The only Steamrunner named (the Appalachia) had the number 52136, almost 2000 below the Galaxy.

posted on May 16th, 2010, 1:49 am

but memory alpha says that it was active around the same time as akiras?