Galaxy Class

[Tyler]

posted on November 20th, 2009, 4:02 pm

Last edited by Tyler on November 20th, 2009, 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So the design is over FIFTY years old in FO timeline. Definitely obsolete.

If that is obsolete, then so is the Intrepid. That's only 5-10 years younger than the Galaxy. The D'deridex and Bird of Prey aren't much better, either...

posted on November 20th, 2009, 6:06 pm

Maybe a little late in the discussion but needs to be said.... Your saying that the galaxy class is not being used because few exist in the startrek universe... Ok fair enough, so who the f**k are the noxons they dont exist in the st universe... Yeah this argument makes sence.

Feel free to read the guide Eraldo - should have a good deal of history on the Noxter for you

As to Tyler... it really doesn't matter at this point. I've already posted the reason that the Devs gave for the Galaxy not being produced any longer, and although age factors in, it is also all about cost, useage etc - but you know the reason already, so it won't make a difference if we continue arguing about this. The Galaxy and the other Warp-Ins won't be buildable for the reasons already stated. You also know very well that the D'deridex was 70% of the Romulan fleet, and the Bird of Preys were ubiquitous as well. Kind of hard to phase out those type of vessels (aka, not give them refits) unless they were mostly destroyed . Of course, the Sang' and Norexan are both considered candidate replacements or at least stand-ins, so your argument there is not very valid. The Galaxy was outright and wholely replaced.

[Anonymous]

posted on November 20th, 2009, 6:51 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on November 20th, 2009, 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

She's one of the premiere ships in ST at this point and has been.  Why isn't she a normal build ship??  She needs to be!

I couldn't agree with you more. There are others like you and I who support the Galaxy Class being a buildable ship.

Some people seem to think that they were underproduced, but they couldn't be more wrong. They have only been able to cut and paste speculatory fanboy nonsense from non-canon resources as supporting evidence for their claims.

Many of these ships were seen in large numbers alongside the Excelsior and Miranda during several major conflicts of the Dominion War. In Voyager "Relativity", more were seen being built at Utopia Planita shipyards in Mars orbit.

Here is supporting documentation from Memory Alpha:

The Dominion War

Galaxy-class starships saw action in many of the major fleet actions of the war including Operation Return, where the class also played a major strategic role, grouped into Galaxy wings, (DS9: "Sacrifice of Angels") the first Battle of Chin'toka, (DS9: "Tears of the Prophets") and the Battle of Cardassia. (DS9: "What You Leave Behind")

Relativity (2370)

Several more starships entered the fleet inventory during the 2370s. (VOY: "Relativity") By the latter half of the decade, Galaxy-class ships were seen all around Federation space, from stations near Earth to near the Romulan Neutral Zone. (VOY: "Endgame"; Star Trek Nemesis)

Memory Alpha does notate the fact that six spaceframes aside from the original were constructed to be completed when circumstances needed them. All of the remaining Galaxy Class vessels were operational during the Dominion War.

Moreover, age does not appear to be a factor in starship production as we can clearly see the Federation kept the Excelsior and Miranda around for 100 years, and the Klingons kept the K'Tinga and Bird of Prey around for equal amounts of time. In wartime situations, these classes were used in large scale numbers and since Fleet Operations is a war simulation it's only appropriate to be able to build these ships in large numbers.

Finally, it wouldn't hurt to make the Galaxy buildable. Therefore, what I suggest is making it buildable with a fleet cap of 12 since some of us want it buildable and some of us do not.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 6:58 pm

Some people seem to think that they were underproduced, but they couldn't be more wrong. They have only been able to cut and paste speculatory fanboy nonsense from non-canon resources as supporting evidence for their claims.

So you think the Devs spew "fanbody nonsense" as you would put it. Wonderful. Guess we should expect the return of transphasic torpedoes too in that case  .

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:08 pm

So you think the Devs spew "fanbody nonsense" as you would put it. Wonderful. Guess we should expect the return of transphasic torpedoes too in that case

Well what are the devs saying? I have no idea what transphasic torpedoes are either . But fans of the Galaxy and myself think it should be buildable regardless of what others say it should be
based on what they think rather than what's seen on screen. I'm sure you can understand that.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:18 pm

You can click the link in my sig, or scroll up a few pages to my first post if you want to read about the Galaxy class according to how it actually has been portrayed on screen - rather than how some fanboys think it was. I think you already know that though. The majority of people realize that the Galaxy isn't some uber ship. What can I say, I guess ignorance is bliss

Not sure what you mean by "I have no idea what transphasic torpedoes are either": were you perhaps typing a little faster than thinking? Perhaps a simple Google search is in order - you know, to jog the memory cells.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:18 pm

But fans of the Galaxy and myself think it should be buildable regardless of what others say it should be
based on what they think rather than what's seen on screen. I'm sure you can understand that.

I'm a huge fan of the Galaxy-Class, man. I agree, it WOULD be nice to have it as a buildable ship, but like I said earlier, it is FAR too cost ineffective to have these built battle-ready right off the bat in-game. That's why I suggested a slight revision in the FO's reason for no buildable Galaxy's, by saying that they're too impractical to be built on the battle field, so instead, they're built mainly at Utopia Planetia, and are thus available as Warp-In ships. But, apparently the decision about the reason is already final, so that idea's gone.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:29 pm

Transphasic torpedoes were in voyager, they are futuristic weaponry developed to defend against the borg, they can destroy a cube with 1 or 2 hits.

The Fleet Ops Timeline is different to the official Star Trek timeline. They spilt in the middle of Voyager. Are you saying that in Star Trek we have seen every race there is to be seen and therefore the Noxter can't exist?

The Noxter don't exist in the star trek universe so.... anyway

Iv seen arguments that say the cardasians are no longer a major power and so cant be a major race ... ok sticking to the startrek universe, creating the noxter and adding iconians who are extinct and never been seen well this is not sticking to what we know and love.

My point is you cant argue that since galaxy class is a badly dev ship and few exist in star trek that its not going to be used as a build-able ship "because that's the way it is in star trek" when the mod has already gone down the path of making up ships and adding made up races..... this just makes that argument invalid and stupid.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:47 pm

Guys ...
 
    All fact-toting and semantics-throwing aside:  The Devs have made clear that this mod is a Universe they concocted.  It gives Fleet Ops uniqueness and distinct personality.  The Devs are not script-writers for the show nor are they Roddenbury legacy-holders, they are guys like us who took the time to program and create an awesome mod.

  If they don't want the Galaxy in as a buildable ship, just go with it.  It's in the warp-in and levels up nicely.  Play with that Galaxy, make it your baby, and kick some ass with it.

  Fact-tossing and speculation over reasons WHY you must be right (from DN or the rest of you) is superfluous.  The reason is:  because they don't want to and it's their take on the ST universe.

 

[ARES IV]

posted on November 20th, 2009, 7:50 pm

Last edited by ARES IV on November 20th, 2009, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That makes the Galaxy design even older.

The first was the USS Galaxy, that was launched before Enterprise did. Years before.

So the design is over FIFTY years old in FO timeline. Definitely obsolete.

If that is obsolete, then so is the Intrepid. That's only 5-10 years younger than the Galaxy. The D'deridex and Bird of Prey aren't much better, either...

If the main argument is that it is too old, then there there is a large number of federation ships that should be removed at once. Sure, they abandon the Galaxy contruction and instead put people on Miranda class vessels, who a little more than cannon fodder or a death trap for the crews.

So age is not the argument here.  

Considering the timeline with FO is considered to happen, one would have hoped that the Federation does not use still so many obsolete ships. Especially as the terrible looses they took in the Dominion war should have told them the very hard way ,  that it is very unwise to go to war with such old ships. You cannot defend yourself against an serious enemy with crap from the last century.

Now, dont get me wrong. I am not saying the Galaxy is a good ship. She has several major flaws, especially for times of war. So if you say it got replaced for that thats fine with me.

However I am not fine with her replacement as it mostly is

1. even older
2. even more flawed
3. maybe doesnt even exist (OR what exactly is the ship or the type of ships that does the jobs now the Galaxy did in the past???)  


To the people who want to have a Galaxy, I suggest replacing the Sovereign textures with Galaxy textures and rename it in the odfs. You dont have to change anything else actually, as the current stats of the Sovereign would be quite ideal for the Galaxy.

I am not a great fan of the Galaxy class myself. Actually I think that it is by far the ugliest ship ever shown in Trek for the Federation.

But you know, there would be ONE great advantage if the Galaxy class would be buildable:

Federation would have finally a relative cheap and usefull vessel for lategame that is

a) Not a refit of a museum piece
b) not overpriced like the Sovereign (at least for what the Sov is capable of ingame)


My point is: The modern federation fleet will not consist of many high end ships like the Sovereign. While the Sovereign is/should be quite powerful, it is very complex and very expensive and long to build.
On the other side however, the fleet will not be mainly aging refits, like it is now.

Imo there is a gap that needs to be filled: A gap between the Excelsior Refit and the Sovereign. It could be filled by the defiant, but that though little ship fits just great were it currently is. I would think about something like this:

Excelsior Refit: A rather old and ship, but a good one. No match in 1v1 against more modern vessels but in heavy support roles this vessels excel. They are the last thing your enemy needs when is is struggling with your fleet already.
Galaxy/Replacement: The average modern heavy Federation ship. Not really cheap, but with relative good stats as a modern ship should have. Not really a warship killer, but mean enough to make anyone think twice before crossing your border.
Sovereign Class: A ship seldomly seens as there are only few of them due the the very high cost and build time of one. So there will be never a large fleet of Sovereign, as that would be very uneconomical. However the few ships you may have in the very late game deserve their name. Still beyond the firepower of a NeghVar Battleship, but with enough bite to really hurt even large mean ships. Capable of withstanding severe punishment. (thats the thing Feds worship the most after all, to have strong defenses)
The Sovereign does not excel in raw firepower, although it has considerable (not ingame). It really (should) excel in having powerful shielding/hull.


If it would be that way, the Galaxy/a proper replacement would fit just right in.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 8:02 pm

   Fact-tossing and speculation over reasons WHY you must be right (from DN or the rest of you) is superfluous.  The reason is:  because they don't want to and it's their take on the ST universe.

Never said I was right or wrong Boggz: I want my opinion to be roughly superfluous, which is exactly why I posted what the Devs have said on the matter . I just wanted to have a little fun while I was at it 

posted on November 20th, 2009, 8:53 pm

I would argue that there weren't all that many galaxies not because it's too old, but because we see a later trend in the shows to create smaller vessels with more specific roles that don't have families on board.  Didn't Ronald D. Moore say something along the lines that it was failed experiment?  Why would you keep creating a ship designed to house families and family services when you're constantly at war with everyone like we are in FO?  Even the Sovereign, which is a little longer because of its nacelles, has fewer decks than a Galaxy.  So even their heavy capital ships are getting smaller and more efficient.  Don't get me wrong, I like the Galaxy, and loved TNG, but it's certainly not "teh gratest sihp eva"

Also, as far as we've seen in "da show", here's something from memory alpha, which is what you guys claim is the penultimate source for settling disputes, even though it won't. 

Analysis of the battle from "Sacrifice of Angels" showed no less than five Galaxy-class vessels in the combined Federation fleet during Operation Return. This would indicate that there were more than the initial six Galaxy-class starships referenced in the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. The total of six ships stemmed from Roddenberry's assumption that Star Fleet would not have constructed vessels of that large a size in substantial numbers. The Manual however also stated that an additional six space frames were constructed and laid up to be completed at a moment when circumstances so dictated. It can be conjectured that those circumstances arose after the first Borg incursion and that by the time the Dominion War began, all remaining Galaxies were operational. A total of twelve vessels is the minimum number to account for all Galaxy-class vessels identified on screen

 

Bold emphasis is mine.  So while there might be more Galaxy class ships out there, and more than 12, there's not 580,285,340 of them swarming all over the place.   I used the articles "Galaxy Class" and "Unnamed Galaxy Class Starships".  Now there are two sentences in these articles that will help the Galaxy Quest supporters in their quest to "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" , however there's already counters to that support and I'm ready to spring a trap on you.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 9:07 pm

Hey there,

Anyway, as a summary it's not build-able, as very few were ever built, 8 at most if I'm correct.

There were certainly more than 8 Galaxy class starships created, the wiki lists over 60 including more than 20 that were mentioned in TNG and DS9.

I don't see the Galaxy being 'outdated' being a valid reason for it's warp-in selection as it was even refitted in the TNG episode: All Good Things with a third nacelle.

It's -the- main ship of TNG, quite prominent in DS9's Dominion war storyline and I believe should be included at least as a heavy destroyer.

posted on November 20th, 2009, 9:24 pm

Also, as far as we've seen in "da show", here's something from memory alpha, which is what you guys claim is the penultimate source for settling disputes, even though it won't.

Analysis of the battle from "Sacrifice of Angels" showed no less than five Galaxy-class vessels in the combined Federation fleet during Operation Return. This would indicate that there were more than the initial six Galaxy-class starships referenced in the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. The total of six ships stemmed from Roddenberry's assumption that Star Fleet would not have constructed vessels of that large a size in substantial numbers. The Manual however also stated that an additional six space frames were constructed and laid up to be completed at a moment when circumstances so dictated. It can be conjectured that those circumstances arose after the first Borg incursion and that by the time the Dominion War began, all remaining Galaxies were operational. A total of twelve vessels is the minimum number to account for all Galaxy-class vessels identified on screen

posted on November 20th, 2009, 9:27 pm

There were certainly more than 8 Galaxy class starships created, the wiki lists over 60 including more than 20 that were mentioned in TNG and DS9.

  Lol I wouldn't quote Wiki ever ... You'll get an F- on any paper.    My friend found that out the hard way.

I don't see the Galaxy being 'outdated' being a valid reason for it's warp-in selection as it was even refitted in the TNG episode: All Good Things with a third nacelle.

 

That was an alternate timeline or fake universe or some nonsense that resulted in none of it being real.  It was aaaaall a dreeaeaeaaeam ....

It's -the- main ship of TNG, quite prominent in DS9's Dominion war storyline and I believe should be included at least as a heavy destroyer.

  A heavy destroyer?  Why not call it a fairy too and REALLY hurt it's feelings.  HA! 
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