Federation and capital ships (Excalibur class)
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posted on July 6th, 2009, 4:29 pm
Tyler wrote:I doubt the Enterprise is any different to other Sovereign's, she just benifits from experience.
Experience doesn't 'rank-up' ships in the show.
So, you mean to tell me that aside from the crew there is 'NO' difference between the Enterprise -E and other Sovereigns? ... hmm.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 4:35 pm
Probably not anything major, just small technical differences like Bridge layout. The Class was new by the time of Nemesis, too new to have any varients.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 4:36 pm
I'm probably in the minority here but i highly doubt that all ships of any class are completely the same. We saw in the 7 year run of TNG the crew make dozens of modifications to ship. Whether it was the use of those nifty new shields for being near the sun or what ever. I have a strong feeling that all ships are customized and become more and more different from the design template the longer theyre with the same crew/capt/Chief Engineer. If you want some cannon sources for this just look at TNG and Nemesis... The Argo is Picard's own little toy, unique to his ship. If ships will make their own unique shuttles (Delta Flyer, Argo, etc) what keeps them from having somewhat unique star ships.
In non-cannon sources its very very well documented. The DaVinci being the only Saber with its unique tractor beams, the Sovereign and its modified warp core and phased plasma torpedoes. So yea, in the end i'll go with yes the Ent-E is different from the base Sovereign template, but ill go with no as far as it being wildly more advanced or superior.
In non-cannon sources its very very well documented. The DaVinci being the only Saber with its unique tractor beams, the Sovereign and its modified warp core and phased plasma torpedoes. So yea, in the end i'll go with yes the Ent-E is different from the base Sovereign template, but ill go with no as far as it being wildly more advanced or superior.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 4:36 pm
Tyler wrote:Probably not anything major, just small technical differences like Bridge layout. The Class was new by the time of Nemesis, too new to have any varients.
That may be true but I was not implying she is a variant.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 4:38 pm
HawkShark wrote:I'm probably in the minority here but i highly doubt that all ships of any class are completely the same. We saw in the 7 year run of TNG the crew make dozens of modifications to ship. Whether it was the use of those nifty new shields for being near the sun or what ever. I have a strong feeling that all ships are customized and become more and more different from the design template the longer theyre with the same crew/capt/Chief Engineer. If you want some cannon sources for this just look at TNG and Nemesis... The Argo is Picard's own little toy, unique to his ship. If ships will make their own unique shuttles (Delta Flyer, Argo, etc) what keeps them from having somewhat unique star ships.
In non-cannon sources its very very well documented. The DaVinci being the only Saber with its unique tractor beams, the Sovereign and its modified warp core and phased plasma torpedoes. So yea, in the end i'll go with yes the Ent-E is different from the base Sovereign template, but ill go with no as far as it being wildly more advanced or superior.
I was going more for HawkSharks response. Thank you HawkShark.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 5:30 pm
since the enterprise E has been out for several years now it definitely wont be as advanced as any new soveriegns built simply based on age. even if starfleet is a bunch of wussies i highly doubt that they build a ship galaxy or sovereign, then build a flagship model which is a technological marvel but any galaxies or sovereigns built after that are crappy inferior ships built by some third rate ferengi shipyard.
we know that starfleet ship engineers share information amongst eachother so it makes sense that if someone figures out how to increase blah blah by 12%, why wouldnt the other engineers also do it.
for a while one ship might be more advanced but it evens out everytime ships go to be updgrade which if i remember is once a year for sensors, every two years for weapons and other big systems and after ten years they get a major overhaul of everything.
in fact if you played bridge commander you might remember that enterprise E was actually a scaled back version of the original sovereign because they couldnt get some of the new experimental systems to work just right. enterprise E was built using existing technology that did work.
and lets face it, age probably does have an impact on performance. since they only get the major overhauls every 10 years by year 8 the enterprise D and E are going to be a bit inferior to other ships of the same class built later on with newer warpcores and such. not by alot since many things can be done without drydock but there are probably some things that need to be done there otherwise why do they still have them. i would think it takes a drydock to change out the computer cores and the warpcores at least.
we know that starfleet ship engineers share information amongst eachother so it makes sense that if someone figures out how to increase blah blah by 12%, why wouldnt the other engineers also do it.
for a while one ship might be more advanced but it evens out everytime ships go to be updgrade which if i remember is once a year for sensors, every two years for weapons and other big systems and after ten years they get a major overhaul of everything.
in fact if you played bridge commander you might remember that enterprise E was actually a scaled back version of the original sovereign because they couldnt get some of the new experimental systems to work just right. enterprise E was built using existing technology that did work.
and lets face it, age probably does have an impact on performance. since they only get the major overhauls every 10 years by year 8 the enterprise D and E are going to be a bit inferior to other ships of the same class built later on with newer warpcores and such. not by alot since many things can be done without drydock but there are probably some things that need to be done there otherwise why do they still have them. i would think it takes a drydock to change out the computer cores and the warpcores at least.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 5:54 pm
Thats all rather true but do remember that starfleet ships rather routinely enter spacedock, and have a 5year cycle for drydock refits. Sparing situations like Voyager i cant really imagine most ships being more than a week or 4 away from a suitable facility. As for regular upgrades to the warp core, we see this done to the Ent-D and it was after a traumatic event. I don't think theyre going to come up with a revolutionary new warpcore for a very specifically tailored ship every year or so. Remember the core, nacelles system etc are all uniquely designed for each and every class. So even if the Sovereign's core is more advanced than a typical Galaxies, it doesnt mean you can just use the tech from the Sovy class's core in the Galaxy. And then of course each fleet yard will have variations in construction techniques, preferences and maybe even precautions. Utopia Planetia may be one of the best and largest fleet yards but i doubt its the only one that is a massive ship building facility. Remember the Federation may be post scarcity but they're still not wasteful, i doubt they really waste time fixing things that arent broken per se. If a cruiser level ship like a steamrunner doesnt need to travel warp 9.9 for extended periods of time then i doubt they'll bother doing many core upgrades that improve high warp speed endurance.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 6:15 pm
if 5 years is from the show that might be more accurate. the 1 2 and 10 year cycle i got was from a book i started reading (why i started i dont know since i had to put it down cause it was pretty awful).
your right in the sense that they arent going to do massive changes to the failed ambassador class systems but they probably still spend alot of time tweaking the relatively new sovereign systems.
out of curiosity why do so many people like the ambassador class since it sucked ass so much.
as for utopia shipyards not being the only big one. i kind of wonder about that since the Feds got caught with their pants down in front of a computer doing one handed exercises, by the dominion. heard a few times during the show about how starfleet shipyards were taken out easily and were still not up to par.
your right in the sense that they arent going to do massive changes to the failed ambassador class systems but they probably still spend alot of time tweaking the relatively new sovereign systems.
out of curiosity why do so many people like the ambassador class since it sucked ass so much.
as for utopia shipyards not being the only big one. i kind of wonder about that since the Feds got caught with their pants down in front of a computer doing one handed exercises, by the dominion. heard a few times during the show about how starfleet shipyards were taken out easily and were still not up to par.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 10:38 pm
The point is: Federation ships are generally smaller than their Klingon, Romulan, and Dominion counterparts, yet no one would argue that they're underpowered or have a disadvantage due to their size.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 10:58 pm
I don't think that is true. The galaxy was HUGE compared to its adversaries(- the Romie war bird). I think after the war, the next logical step would be to create a ship to match the Huet, and the Dominion Juggernaut.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 11:21 pm
Adm. Zaxxon wrote:I don't think that is true. The galaxy was HUGE compared to its adversaries(- the Romie war bird). I think after the war, the next logical step would be to create a ship to match the Huet, and the Dominion Juggernaut.
Umm, Sorry but a D'deridex class warbird is larger than a Galaxy class starship however slightly inferior in terms of fire power. Look it up.
And the federation has never pursued a 'We must have a ship to match' philosophy. It's all about tactics and using what you have, which is why we still see Excelsiors and Mirandas in service.
posted on July 6th, 2009, 11:45 pm
The D'deridex is over half again as long as the Galaxy-class (643m for Galaxy, 1041m for D'deridex) and carries a higher military crew complement (an unknown portion of the ~1,014 personnel aboard the Enterprise-D were civilians).
posted on July 6th, 2009, 11:53 pm
Thats why I put - war bird. I'm not sure what you mean Tyler, cus I thought it was almost twice the sise as the Galaxy, but either way, my point stands. The feds like to stay on top of Tech,so The Excalibur is a very viable design. It would look awsome if the Mods re designed it a little, making it FO style, and It would liik amazing warping in as an EXP warpin.
posted on July 7th, 2009, 12:12 am
Last edited by Anonymous on July 7th, 2009, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oh, and there is no need to be rude, quadd, cus you guys obviously mis understood me. Saying, "look it up" is condescending. Oh, and Sao, I think I understasnd your post now, I think you ment to say, twice, not half, but you are right either way.
Sorry, but I just felt I needed to clarify My post there. I know the Galaxy is smaller than the warbird, and that is what I put. Sorry if we miss understood each other. no hard feelings.
Sorry, but I just felt I needed to clarify My post there. I know the Galaxy is smaller than the warbird, and that is what I put. Sorry if we miss understood each other. no hard feelings.
posted on July 7th, 2009, 12:21 am
I think people just didnt realise your "-" meant "minus".
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