Federation and capital ships (Excalibur class)

[DOCa Cola]

posted on June 6th, 2009, 4:34 pm

Last edited by DOCa Cola on June 12th, 2009, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

I know they dislike the Excalibur but i am so hoping they will put it in... I mean i think it's a lovely ship and also certainly would flesh out the somewhat lacking Captial Ship area of the Federation... Lets face it who really uses much more than the Remore and Mayson's Super Excelsiors!!!

[DOCaEdit]this post and the following discussion has been split from Current Project Status[/DOCaEdit]

posted on June 6th, 2009, 6:02 pm

I know they dislike the Excalibur but i am so hoping they will put it in... I mean i think it's a lovely ship and also certainly would flesh out the somewhat lacking Captial Ship area of the Federation... Lets face it who really uses much more than the Remore and Mayson's Super Excelsiors!!!

We've never seen Starfleet really interested in capital ships, though. The ships used to bear the name Enterprise are generally implied to be among the most powerful, advanced starships in the Federation. Starfleet isn't about big ships - it's about technology. The Federation rejects the ethos that brought us the Ford Expedition and the Hummer and embraces "laptop logic".

[Anthony]

posted on June 6th, 2009, 6:23 pm

Last edited by Anthony on June 6th, 2009, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

We've never seen Starfleet really interested in capital ships, though. The ships used to bear the name Enterprise are generally implied to be among the most powerful, advanced starships in the Federation. Starfleet isn't about big ships - it's about technology. The Federation rejects the ethos that brought us the Ford Expedition and the Hummer and embraces "laptop logic".

I have to say i don't see that? The Galaxy, the Excelsior, the Sovereign, the Constitution none of these are "small ships" in fact on screen the most common ships are much larger than the average Klingon ship, a lot are larger than the average Cardassian ship and only a few Dominion ships are much bigger than the federation ships.

I'm sorry but i don't see much emphasis on smaller advanced ships, True the Defiant and the Intrepid are smaller more advanced but the Soveriegn is hardly a "Laptop" ship. Nor is the Galaxy or the Excelsior, or the Nebula.... the list can go on.

The Federation is well known for building "large capable multipurpose explorers" instead of small dedicated ships. Only in the later era's did large numbers of specific tactical vessels appear such as the Nova, the Defiant and the like.

I should note that i view the Dominion Battleship as something bigger than your standard capital ship!

posted on June 6th, 2009, 6:26 pm

Right, but their large multipurpose ships aren't battleships really--they just don't have the combat loadout to be comparable to the other factions battleships I think. In this case, size isn't everything because Klingon warships are bristling with weaponry and are quite small because they are not multipurpose. Federation ships are generally large--and while capable--are not built for combat (generally speaking).

posted on June 6th, 2009, 6:30 pm

Right, but their large multipurpose ships aren't battleships really--they just don't have the combat loadout to be comparable to the other factions battleships I think. In this case, size isn't everything because Klingon warships are bristling with weaponry and are quite small because they are not multipurpose. Federation ships are generally large--and while capable--are not built for combat (generally speaking).

Doesn't mean they are not capital ships, i'm sorry but Federation ships tend to fall under the capital ship heading. Besides the Excelsior was more powerful than the Klingon ships of its era. The Galaxy was capable of beating a Vorcha etc hands down, the Soveriegn is more than capable of dealing with the Capital ships of other races (It clearly outpreformed the Norexian's, the Sona Battleships etc in the films)

I think using the old line of battle rating system would give a better view of my opinion.

I liken Federation ships to the 78 gunners of the age of sail. Not the menacing bemoths of the Spannish and French fleets but definately a far more multipurpose and capable weapons platform!

posted on June 6th, 2009, 6:43 pm

And then Don't forget  the non cannon Excalibur class, how ever (As far as I know ) I don't think any of the cannon ships could beat the dominion Juggernaut.

posted on June 6th, 2009, 7:53 pm

I'm not sure, the crew of the Valiant made a good go at it and they were inexperienced and mentally tramatised cadets. I certainly think that a Sovereign class could make a good go at it, the only reason she lost to the Reman warbird was the inability to bring her rapid fire quantum torpedo turret into effective play.

Just consider the carnage caused when Dianna located the Reman bird and they started unloading Qauntums. If they had been managing that from the start then it would have gone a lot differently.

A Galaxy X would also probably give it a go as well. The main phaser cannon on that thing was just completely crazy!!

As for the Excalibur that would waste a Dominion Juggernaught, i play on an RPG with it that has what many would call fairly cannonised stats for it and its tripple rapid fire quantum turrets (if you look on most models you can see 2 Ventral and 1 Dorsal) combined with the regular burst fire tubes that can fire qauntum's mean it has a torpedo firepower that rivals the Akira and a phaser armament that puts the Sovereign to shame.

posted on June 6th, 2009, 9:48 pm

Please don´t forget (like everybody seems to do all the time  ) that for 90% of the time that the Scimitar battled the Enterprise, Shinzons Goal wasn´t to destroy the Enterprise but to capture Picard, otherwise i guess the Enterprise would have been pulverized. 

posted on June 12th, 2009, 11:29 am

this discussion has been split from Current Project Status[/DOCaEdit]

[Tyler]

posted on June 12th, 2009, 1:28 pm

Last edited by Tyler on June 12th, 2009, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Please don´t forget (like everybody seems to do all the time  ) that for 90% of the time that the Scimitar battled the Enterprise, Shinzons Goal wasn´t to destroy the Enterprise but to capture Picard, otherwise i guess the Enterprise would have been pulverized. 

Once Shinzon got fed up of trying, he attempted to destroy the ship and everything on it. Enterprise still outlasted the 2 Norexan's, even when Scimitar was more serious.

As for ship size, does anyone remember the Oberth, Nova & Miranda Class? They were very small. The Constitution was similar size to the Klingon warships of it's time, only big for it's time. The Freedom (from Wolf 359) was a small ship. Every ship when the Federation was founded was very small.

posted on June 12th, 2009, 1:44 pm

But he fed could use a cheaper ship with more firepower. I think the best battleship from the fed´s is the defiant class. But in the game it build to long and cost to much, especially against the borg its useless because one assimilator kills the whole crew with on wipe. Also it first realy strong when it gets the quantumtorpedo. And Mayon come on a akira Class without one torpedolouncher?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Mayson's Akira does have a torpedo 

And need I mention that the Intrepid serves all your Anti-Borg needs?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 2:31 pm

Realy? I will check that out!  I thought the Intrepid is only a midgame-notrealyusefullbutithadtobeinthegame-ship 

posted on June 12th, 2009, 2:34 pm

Haha, the Intrepid is beautiful: It has the speed to go in for quick straffing runs and the crew to survive assimilation for a little... and then it has its Special Ability, which is death to stations and Borg units (seriously, an artillery range torpedo mounted on a fast vessel is killer). I generally don't tech up past Intrepids for a good long while because of how cost effective the Intrepid is (and available at chassis level 1).

posted on June 12th, 2009, 2:44 pm

It should get the armor and the supertorpedos from endgame hen its veteran. 

But is it still usefull in the latergame against the Borg? Should i combine it with ExcelsiorII or other ships?