V3 Borg
posted on December 24th, 2008, 11:47 am
Last edited by Anonymous on December 27th, 2008, 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
The team worked hard to make the borg what it is now, i don't think they'll redesign the whole borg mecanics. And they did a fine job. For me, space is not an issue, after researching you can decomision research facility (transmission matrix), you don't need it anymore. So you'll have only the base and 6 - 8 incubation complex stations. 
LE: actually, you can't decomision the transmision matrix because you won't be able to build ships.
LE: actually, you can't decomision the transmision matrix because you won't be able to build ships.
posted on December 29th, 2008, 10:15 am
Last edited by Prowannabe on December 29th, 2008, 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
posted on December 29th, 2008, 10:26 am
posted on December 29th, 2008, 10:45 am
Last edited by Anonymous on December 29th, 2008, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you play with a borg player you know you have to keep the fleet in one place in you want to survive. I played a lot as borg on gamespy or lan matches and i know what i'm talking. 
I had a fleet of 5 (tactical) cubes and a couple of diamond headings toward feds base and encountered a masive fed fleet. Their concentrated fire destroyed my cubes in less then a minute. Archaon can confirm it.
Also masive fleets causes game lag. I've played a game 2vs2 on a 4 players map and after building huge armies the game crashed before we had a chance to shoot a foton. I think there should be a limit of how many ships a player can build (have) just as it was in original armada 2. The game would be more dinamic instead of just gather resouces and build a huge army to crush your opponent. Where's the strategy in that ?
I suggest that supplies to be fixed. You spend the supplies, you can't buid ships anymore. After losing a ship you get the supplies for that ship back and you can build another one. That way, you have to be carefull what you build and balance your fleet acording to the situation. As it is now, every player build huge armies of the most powerful ship that race have.
I had a fleet of 5 (tactical) cubes and a couple of diamond headings toward feds base and encountered a masive fed fleet. Their concentrated fire destroyed my cubes in less then a minute. Archaon can confirm it.
Also masive fleets causes game lag. I've played a game 2vs2 on a 4 players map and after building huge armies the game crashed before we had a chance to shoot a foton. I think there should be a limit of how many ships a player can build (have) just as it was in original armada 2. The game would be more dinamic instead of just gather resouces and build a huge army to crush your opponent. Where's the strategy in that ?
I suggest that supplies to be fixed. You spend the supplies, you can't buid ships anymore. After losing a ship you get the supplies for that ship back and you can build another one. That way, you have to be carefull what you build and balance your fleet acording to the situation. As it is now, every player build huge armies of the most powerful ship that race have.
posted on December 29th, 2008, 11:11 am
posted on December 29th, 2008, 11:25 am
Last edited by Anonymous on December 29th, 2008, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
That will only make games longer. The players will just gather more dilitium and trilitium. I still think that making impossible to buy supplies is the right answer. If you want a big fleet, build only sabers.
Or at very least, put an option on menu to have fixed supplies.
Or at very least, put an option on menu to have fixed supplies.
posted on December 29th, 2008, 12:08 pm
Lol, wow, I hate it when someone quotes what I write, its like trying to use my own writing against me for some sick and twisted purpose but anyways.
I prefer it this way, so its easier to see what Im replying too since you write long posts
I dont use them against you in any way lol, I just like it more this way 
The Borg are good, I never said it wasn't, I just said it could be better, and that is why we have these forums and to be honest I was stating opinion mixed with fact and The Black Baron just comes in and says its all wrong, I'm wrong, saying I have no idea what I'm saying...that is just well "wrong"... I was being nice because these forums are here to make this "game" better by having more ideas on improving gameplay. Which means to help your own ideas and other ideas, don't shoot them down...I haven't shot down anything you ever had to say so why shoot down mine?
I know you didnt say they arent good, its just when someone says something isnt really the best IMO it means its average. As I said in the original post I might misunderstand that phrase as Im from Slovenia.
I never said any of your ideas were wrong, if I came out that way Im sorry but Im just pointing out potencial problems that could derive from your ideas. I know you mean well, but people take advantage of the slightest balancing issue when playing over internet and it really ruins the game. Im just afraid that will happen. For instance in BETA2 people used to spam out Klingon Construction ships and that was basically unbeatable. Doesnt that make the game annoying if your playing against a Klingon player and he comes at your fleet of warships with a fleet of con ships? It really ruins the experiance IMO and thats why I try and point out any inperfections in peoples ideas
Also, if you search the forum a bit you'll see that I posted plenty of my ideas and not all were well received, but I dont mind. Its good when someone points a problem out, you just have to react to it the right way. Im sure no one here will bash ideas just because to fuck with you. If I said something wrong just correct me, maybe I misunderstood you in the first place
You dont have to be so touchy, if I really wanted to bash your ideas Id post something like: "LoLs n00b your ideas suck, get the hell out :shifty:" Do you really think I took all this time to write long posts to politely bash you? The anwser is no
I like the assimilation idea because well it fits with the Borg, do you remember that Enterprise episode...? The one that the Borg assimilated a small ship and crew then slowly built upon that and assimilated more people to crew the new larger more powerful Borg ship? Saying the Borg create is just a contradiction, the Borg assimilate anything they do not know or want and "add on" not "create" what they already have or need...to make a cube they use replicator technology to add on to the ship they already assimilated and when they assimilate more ships and people they add on to it...but to do that it will be far too complicated since that is a whole new level of micromanaging. And the assimilation name would work because simply put the Borg don't consider priority, that is why they have their ships designed as they are...
TBH I never watched the Enterprise show, so I dont know what exactly your talking about
, but Ill take your word for it. Id love to be able to use something like that in the game, but as you said the A2 engine is limited and I doubt the team could incorporate this in so that it would work.I do have problems thinking though, that every station and every cube is made out of other ships, surely they created something. In the shows I watched they never said anything about that so IDK, I just assummed...
The last part though, I still dont agree that the Borg dont consider priority. Surely they must place their ships according to priority. For instance they send a fleet cubes to try and fend of Species 8472, but they might only send a sphere to assimilate (or destroy) a lesser foe. Surely they dont send a fleet of cubes to everyone foe they encounter. If that is true than they do indeed use priority, if you think about it Im sure every race does. How could they survive otherwise? All Im trying to say is that I do agree with the priority system for the Borg
And assimilation points won't work like priority, each ship will need a set amount of assimilation points like supply but based off of technology, not supply...so a ship will cost the usual resources minus supply since the Borg don't need that but will be replaced with assimilation points. An assimilation point is either created by either a station like it is done now or through assimilation of enemy vessels, YOU CAN DO BOTH...you do not need to just focus on one, so if you want you can make any ship you want but you need the resources to do it...this idea is based off of the technologies needed for different Borg ships, smaller ships need a lot less technology and knowledge compared to cubes and tactical cubes. Assimilation costs for vessels should be assigned for each vessel size, like tech1/tier1 ships i.e. scout/probe needs 1, tech2/tier2 destroyer/interceptor 2, tech3/teir3 frigate assimilator 4, tech4/tier4 cruiser sphere 8, tech5/tier5 battlecruiser diamond 16, tech6/tier6 battleship cube 32. Sorry it takes a lot of space but the based principle is the more power it is the more AP it will cost, it will be increased by the base multiplied by a power, like 2^0, 2^1, 2^2, so on... That is just a simple model, for the actual gameplay it would be much more intricate and fine tuned to allow a greater spread because you don't want a thousand cubes floating all over the place... I would also like to see this model shown for ships and upgrades for each ship, you should be able to buy a base ship lets say a cube for example then if you want you can upgrade specific systems but using assimilation points, the cost will increase per upgrade so at most you can upgrade 4 systems then your done. I want upgraded Borg vessels very powerful but expensive, very expensive.
For this its simply replacing supply and priority with Assimilation points because well it just seems more cannon because the borg love technology and knowledge, true they do need priority but their main goal and focus and how they increase in power is through knowledge and technology...
Heres the deal I dont understand about the Borg. In the encounters that I saw (in the moveis and series), they never seem to care much about assimilation. In the Federations first true encounter with the Borg, at Wolf359 they didnt assimilate any ship, they destroyed them all. They also didnt try too hard to assimilate the Enterprise, they only went in for Picard and then they went out.
And in the second encounter, at the beginning of First Contact, they again didnt try to assimilate any ship, they tried to destroy them. Only after both of their ships were destroyed did the beam the queen on the Enterprise, more out of survival than anything IMO. So you see, while assimilation seems to be the Borgs "thing", they didnt really practice it in the 2 major instances that happened. Not to mention that they seem to have ships specifically designed to deal major destruction and not have much assimilation capability (tactical cube). This again makes me believe that, while the Borg do use assimilation, they just dont use it quite so often as we might think.
Let me again say that Im not trying to say your wrong or anything, but Im just merely expressing my opinion on the matter, thats why the forums are for
About your idea, I can see you thought a lot about it and I think its basic concept might work, however I still see some minor potencial balancing problems. I understand that you can get assimilation points with the structures as well, but if your playing with some good players over the internet. Wouldnt this system force you to assimilate as well, since I doubt they would make the structures as efficient and assimilation. And thats the only real problem I have with it, I dont want to be forced to do anything I dont want in games, especially if its either do this way or die. While I understand that they might balance it in a way it wont bother me I still have my doubts.
How about a compromise? Lets keep the system that is in use right now and maybe add bonus points for assimilation. For instance you get 1 priority for every destroyer you assimilate, 2 for cruisers and 5 for battleships. IMO that would be a fairer system and would not cause as much issues.
I have many more ideas for Borg but I will leave them for another time, well ideas for the whole game but most won't be shared...sadly : (
Please do share them, Im sure the team would like to hear them and might use some of them as well
I did not mean to make you think I dislike all of your ideas, again I apologize. I was just pointing out stuff I saw potencial problems with. :thumbsup:I love math and if you want I can create some simple equations to tell you just about anything and everything you may want to know for a better balancing system with more varied and intricate game mechanics...
Hehe, Im sure Optec used some complicated math to come up with this balancing system we have now as well. I forgot but he probably balanced and rebalanced everything for about 5 times already
Though Im sure if you'll have valid solutions they will listen.
There are many more ideas why I like the assimilation idea more, 1) how we have it currently the Borg player can just play defense the whole game while setting up a massive tactical cube fleet to kill everyone late game, 2) the player will meet smaller borg ships and has a chance to slow down their progression if they do tactical moves, 3) in late game the Borg player can't start pumping out cubes out of no where, currently if the Borg player sets up enough resources he/she can make a huge cube fleet to knock out anyone.
There are many more reasons but for some reason I can't think of anymore off hand...
See these reasons are a direct consequence of what Im talking about, you didnt consider online games. Non of the points you mention apply to the online aspect of the game. If you play defensivly you'll get picked apart by smaller and more maneurable ships. If you sit back the whole game and then build some cubes, in MP those cubes will be gone in a matter of minutes, if you survive long enough to build them that is.
I dont mean to sound harsh, but thats just the way it is. You can appreciate what a difficult job the team have on their hands
They need to balance it appropriately for online matches and still have it diverse enough to keep everyone happy 
posted on December 29th, 2008, 12:27 pm
posted on December 29th, 2008, 12:57 pm
posted on December 29th, 2008, 1:29 pm
posted on December 29th, 2008, 1:36 pm
posted on December 29th, 2008, 8:47 pm
Its all good The Black Baron, just a little stressed at work now, sorry, didn't mean to snap. I like how fleet ops plays right now, it starts on smaller fleets then works it way to larger fleets until its a full scale war. I would like the AI tweaked to make it seem more realistic on how they play but hey the base AI is really old so its not a big deal. It is true about the Borg that they usually destroy the Federation when they encounter them, the main reason why is because the Federation is very powerful, its hard to assimilate something that is trying to kill you, so the Borg needed to adapt so they just decided to kill the defenders, after the defenders are dead assimilate the actual Federation.
I should start going on multiplayer matches, my machine at work is a beast, 6g ram, i7 quad processor, basically the best of everything, haven't tried playing this game on it though...can the game run on trichannel ram?
Was just thinking about using it as a server of sorts for online games, I would just set up the game and observe while other people actually play.
I should start going on multiplayer matches, my machine at work is a beast, 6g ram, i7 quad processor, basically the best of everything, haven't tried playing this game on it though...can the game run on trichannel ram?
Was just thinking about using it as a server of sorts for online games, I would just set up the game and observe while other people actually play.posted on December 30th, 2008, 8:52 am
Last edited by Prowannabe on December 30th, 2008, 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
I liked my somewhat previous idea on how to limit ships that fits in with how the Dominion in the series was fought... For maps instead of just having random planets and moons like in a pin wheel, or a grid, what if we introduce something like a planet but instead of having the planets actually 3d, keep them as they are and on the planet the player can build a main station then start building a base off of that, like how in armada 1 if you put a station on a planet you got a bonus, in this if you put it on a planet you can get a higher supply cap, so capturing and holding planets in the game adds more strategic depth. Like that one map I made a while back but a lot better, that was just a lame huge version of it, like on small maps have 3/5 star systems and the biggest maps have 15/21 star systems spread out with different things in each star system and different things in empty space so you can do anything.
I like the idea because it almost forces players to try to expand into some form, it will benefit the people who want to stay in one or a couple little locations and benefit the people who like to expand early because with more systems under your control you can field a larger fleet but the bad part is that you will need to hold or try to hold more systems. This idea will also "make" players use different size ships for their intended purposes, for this you can set up patrol fleets made of fast ships with good sensors and heavy but slow fleets for decimating a system quickly, it will add a whole new level on strategy. With this you can relive the Dominion War or The Battle of Wolf 359. :thumbsup:
The basic outlay of the maps will have a specific number of "solar systems/or just a planet for area restriction purposes" which will include different moons and amounts each system is worth if that is possible to allow a greater degree of strategy. So you can have a fleet set up on one system because it gives you a lot more tritanium and supply and neglecting another system because it doesn't give much, or holding a system because its the closest to your enemy, or whatever, strategy is endless.
Another reason why I like this idea is because it introduces more of a strategic aspect to the game which it doesn't have now, mostly its just about making a bunch of ships and sending them into your enemy's fleet or base and hope your fleet can destroy them. This will give your ships some goal and you the player more options on how to move your ships and how to respond to different attacks, this will make the game more like risk in that the enemy can send in a small fleet to attack one of your outposts, then after you move your ships they could launch the actual attack on your much more needed system. It would be cool to limit the amount of stations that can be built on each system to allow a greater degree of strategy but that might not be possible with this system.
I know this is a good idea, it will help against those massive sluggafests but also making fleet combat more frequent and grand, a ship will count more then they do now. O, and I have a bunch of ideas to make the interface seem really futuristic and cool, and make the ship icons insanely cool...
But for this too work the player can only build stations at certain locations/landmarks, like solar systems/planets and possibly by other celestial bodies like nebulas and asteroid fields and such, like in the Dominion War when the Dominion made a huge sensor station by a nebula.
But not in open space, that will make it seem really strange...never really seen a station out in the middle of no where except for the Borg's secret Unimatrix... 
Maybe a Borg strength?
I like the idea because it almost forces players to try to expand into some form, it will benefit the people who want to stay in one or a couple little locations and benefit the people who like to expand early because with more systems under your control you can field a larger fleet but the bad part is that you will need to hold or try to hold more systems. This idea will also "make" players use different size ships for their intended purposes, for this you can set up patrol fleets made of fast ships with good sensors and heavy but slow fleets for decimating a system quickly, it will add a whole new level on strategy. With this you can relive the Dominion War or The Battle of Wolf 359. :thumbsup:
The basic outlay of the maps will have a specific number of "solar systems/or just a planet for area restriction purposes" which will include different moons and amounts each system is worth if that is possible to allow a greater degree of strategy. So you can have a fleet set up on one system because it gives you a lot more tritanium and supply and neglecting another system because it doesn't give much, or holding a system because its the closest to your enemy, or whatever, strategy is endless.
Another reason why I like this idea is because it introduces more of a strategic aspect to the game which it doesn't have now, mostly its just about making a bunch of ships and sending them into your enemy's fleet or base and hope your fleet can destroy them. This will give your ships some goal and you the player more options on how to move your ships and how to respond to different attacks, this will make the game more like risk in that the enemy can send in a small fleet to attack one of your outposts, then after you move your ships they could launch the actual attack on your much more needed system. It would be cool to limit the amount of stations that can be built on each system to allow a greater degree of strategy but that might not be possible with this system.
I know this is a good idea, it will help against those massive sluggafests but also making fleet combat more frequent and grand, a ship will count more then they do now. O, and I have a bunch of ideas to make the interface seem really futuristic and cool, and make the ship icons insanely cool...
But for this too work the player can only build stations at certain locations/landmarks, like solar systems/planets and possibly by other celestial bodies like nebulas and asteroid fields and such, like in the Dominion War when the Dominion made a huge sensor station by a nebula.
But not in open space, that will make it seem really strange...never really seen a station out in the middle of no where except for the Borg's secret Unimatrix... Maybe a Borg strength?posted on December 30th, 2008, 10:59 am
posted on December 30th, 2008, 11:54 am
on that topic, i think to keep the game like that, the borg sphere should have a special ability.
when its under 25% health you can beam the remaining crew onto all surrounding vessels, evenly but it may assimilate a few of the smaller ones for a last ditch fight
when its under 25% health you can beam the remaining crew onto all surrounding vessels, evenly but it may assimilate a few of the smaller ones for a last ditch fight
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