Sovereign Class - Durability Issues

posted on March 11th, 2009, 2:42 am

Rhaz Reply to Sovereign Thread #105:

Of ANY ship the Defiant does not need a boost.

'the phalanx is a sorry excuse, and you can only get it with one admiral, which isnt enough'

The Phalanx is a great ship and the Federations primary offensive battleship.

If you're so determind to have the Sovereign be the most powerful battleship in the game come up with some new arguments. The Federation is a defense oriented faction okay? They have great shields and decent armour. I'm sorry that every single one of their ships doesn't have 40 offensive value. The Sovereign should be 42-44 but only on the grounds that it should comfortably outgun a Vorcha class ship. It shouldn't have 50 defense though. It's mostly fine how it is.

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:05 am

What about decreasing the attack power of all Fed ships and increasing their defense to compensate  . Essentially a Tank race: where weapons are kinda sucky, but try to frickin' kill that vessel, and you'll have a real tough time.

SWEET! 

[Darthashur]

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:20 am

Last edited by Darthashur on March 11th, 2009, 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

I took my time thinking about everything said here and in the zillion other sovie sucks threads 

The Sovereign class is definetely not very interesting to use, it´s special weapon may be nice, but i think it doesn´t fit the sovie very well. I would increase it´s stats just a little ( NOT to 50/70, thats ridiculous).

I like the idea of another special weapon, maybe something that reflects the fact it uses the best starfleet has to offer, in crew, technology and design. Something like last stand or so, where for a short time, the sovie gets a boost to fire rate and regeneration or something like that. I also like the pulse fire idea for quantums.

As for the defiant, pls , it is a heavy escort ship ( ESCORT). While it is quite powerful, it should be no match for a dedicated battle cruiser of any sort, not the sovie, not any other ship. As we remember, the borg took it out in first contact with little effort. Given the fact that other fed vessels like sabers and akiras were still in the fight, that should tell you a lot about the durability of a defiant in a heated combat, not decloaking and toasting some unprepared/ unshielded cardie ships 

posted on March 11th, 2009, 5:22 am

@ dominious, you know what, i kinda like your  idea, as feds do focus on offense, however defiant would need to be higher, but it cant be higher then a sovy

@ rhaz the sov does need to be beter #1 becuase it is in the show, and #2 for balances sake, or it needs to be cheaper listen to this a

nevargh claas kligon ship is 679 dilithium, and 166 trilithium, and it is 50 offense 44 defense

soverign class 777 dilithium 231 tri, 36 offense 46 defense

and the defiant 679 dilithium, 209 tri 36 offense, 38 defese

somthing seems wrong with that

for one defiant should have greater offense then defense in my opinion, and overall both should be stronger
and i just belive the soverign should be the backbon, of the fleet, and then the phalanx should be the
flagship, have a very high power, as they cost like over 900 dilithoum it should be high power,

and in my opinion, phalanx is a sorry excuse, a its stats are lower then a nevargh, yet it costs over 900 dilithium, and you can only have 8,

now i would be fine with phalanx being the maing backbone and flahship, if it got what it deserves for its money

and rhaz can you state your ideas, and your disagreements with me in a little less critical fashion, maybye you thought you wernt, but i felt that you had a bit of an attacking tone

@ drathathsur argre totaly sovie shouldnt be 50/70

and i love your last stand idea, with the regeneration however, the last stand should be able to be used at any time, and the pulse weapons is awsome! maybye the could be like the blue ones one the miranda

i disagree and agree with you about defiant, partially it is an escrot ship, not meant to go into a major battle alone, but on the other hand, it is a shipr of war, specificaly designed to attack threats to the fed, specifically the borg, i would say an offesive incres to 40-42, leave the defense tho,

and i strongly disagree with your first contact, the borg go to the greatest threat, so thell take out the powerfullest ship first, so i can turn around and say, it shows that the defiant is the best, and in that battle the defiant hung in there, and also, its a movie, it wouldnt be a tng movie, if picard didnt save the day(and worf)

[Darthashur]

posted on March 11th, 2009, 5:53 am

Last edited by Darthashur on March 11th, 2009, 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

@ ray Well, against the borg the defiant gave it´s worst performance, funny i think.

Don´t forget the defiant has a quite nasty increase in stats when leveling up, and a lot of weapons, that´s more than enough for me and it has only short range (one of the reasons i don´t use it that often).

Another idea for a sovie special "weapon":

Pride of Starfleet: For x seconds, the sovereign ignores all system damage and all negative effects. Shield Regeneration and Hull repair rate are increased by 20/25 %.

I know that sounds overpowered a bit, but it could have a cooldown like the descent.

And a question, does anyone know the classification of the descent class, explorer, combat, patrol or what ?^^

posted on March 11th, 2009, 7:23 am

@ darthasur, you cant justify one ship, because of one movie, its the defiant, not the defiant class, it was the focus of the serious, what they do in the movies can not be viewed as the standard, movies are made for money, just like you cant say that the galaxy class can take out a borg cube easily because it did in wolf 359, it was the eterprise, again, it had to be suspensfull

posted on March 11th, 2009, 11:00 am

I have just another opinion on that, what we see in the movies and series is almost all we can base anything on.

And Ray, the fact that the defiant in first contact was a "hero ship" led by Worf (the almighty klingon^^) makes me think that any "standard" defiant would been utterly destroyed.

But, hey this is a sovie thread, so back to the subject...... 

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:25 pm

@darthasaur, okay so then i guess if you say we only have movies to base off of, then we should have soverigns takeing out cubes all the time, in like two shots, and takeing on reman warbirds, and galaxys that are taking out multiple warbirds, and well have an intrepid that can take out multiple cubes in one shot, and defiants that just rip through dominion,

the point is, just because the defiant got a scratch, against a CUBE, dosent mean that it sucks, 39 ships destryoyed in 359, and in first contact, alot of other ships got destryoed, and defiant held its ground

you cannot justify the power of a ship by it getting destroyed a few times in the show, there were akira destryoyed in dominion war, but we cant give it low defense just because it got hurt, all we can do is use the information of what it was design for,

and as it happens, the defiant it the feds answer to immenent attack, and to the borg

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:29 pm

I think the feds are pretty balanced. You saw it in our MP yesterday, too, the feds did pretty well under Archaeon.
If anything, the Dominion are pretty nerfed in the initial stages... but maybe i say that cos I dont like their small ships all that much... except for the small SD and the breen cruiser in the breen avatar, the rest of the small Dom ships look ugly..lol

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:38 pm

if you notice serpicus, thats because nobody had time to upgrade to later ships, (where you guys woulda killed us), and alos you made the mistake of attacking him, right when my ships were in his base, and he had just gotten warp in, and he had kligon help from me,

and these stats can help show you why in late game we woulda died

nevargh claas kligon ship is 679 dilithium, and 166 trilithium, and it is 50 offense 44 defense

soverign class 777 dilithium 231 tri, 36 offense 46 defense

and the defiant 679 dilithium, 209 tri 36 offense, 38 defese

so you see the fed late game sucks

idk why you guys got killed, you wernt very cordinated, it took one swift blow from us, and you died,(archaon is good)

borg is best in early strentgh, and fed is okay, i notice you guys also didnt use all your moons

[Darthashur]

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:45 pm

Last edited by Darthashur on March 11th, 2009, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, i wasn´t saying the defiant is weak, i just don´t like the fact that anyone tries to make it some sort of godship, i think it´s good the way it is.

And the only reason the Enterprise was able to destroy that cube was Picards knowledge of the Borg and maybe the fact that the Borg didn´t really care for that cube, only the sphere that travelled back in time.

And when did one Galaxy destroy multiple Warbirds ?! I don´t remember anything like that.

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:48 pm

why was the cube destroyed by targeting that one area??

posted on March 11th, 2009, 3:55 pm

It was a weak spot, as Data said, nothing remarkable, but that was just the outlook, and Picard knew it was in reality vital to the cubes ship functions. And the Enterprise wasn´t the only ship firing ray, it was a whole fleet.

The Borg in First Contact (at least in the beginning with the cube) were behaving in a different way than most of the time, they didn´t bother (at least it seemed so) to assimilate anything, they just destroyed the federation ships.

Of course, assimilating some ships would have been a better idea, those ships could have distracted the Enterprise long enough to make that time travel. Or, even better, the assimilated ships could have attacked Earth, leaving the Enterprise to the choice of total Assimilation now or in the past, but the Borg for all their arrogance are quite stupid 

posted on March 11th, 2009, 4:14 pm

@darthasur

And the only reason the Enterprise was able to destroy that cube was Picards knowledge of the Borg and maybe the fact that the Borg didn´t really care for that cube, only the sphere that travelled back in time.

my point exactely, just like your trying to base the defiant being bad, because it got hurt a bit in first contact, you cant justify either of those

Oh, i wasn´t saying the defiant is weak, i just don´t like the fact that anyone tries to make it some sort of godship, i think it´s good the way it is.

nobody was saying its a god ship, all we are saying is it needs a bit of increase for its cost, becuase the nedvargh costs the same, and is alot better, no, the defiant shouldnt be as good as nevarg, but it needs some increase,

and the soverign mainly needs the increase

posted on March 11th, 2009, 4:35 pm

What about decreasing the attack power of all Fed ships and increasing their defense to compensate  . Essentially a Tank race: where weapons are kinda sucky, but try to frickin' kill that vessel, and you'll have a real tough time.

That idea has something, if not implented to extreme.

Maybe something like average weapons but strong defense.

Rhaz Reply to Sovereign Thread #105:

Of ANY ship the Defiant does not need a boost.

'the phalanx is a sorry excuse, and you can only get it with one admiral, which isnt enough'

The Phalanx is a great ship and the Federations primary offensive battleship.

If you're so determind to have the Sovereign be the most powerful battleship in the game come up with some new arguments. The Federation is a defense oriented faction okay? They have great shields and decent armour. I'm sorry that every single one of their ships doesn't have 40 offensive value. The Sovereign should be 42-44 but only on the grounds that it should comfortably outgun a Vorcha class ship. It shouldn't have 50 defense though. It's mostly fine how it is.

That is not true:
The dont have good shields or good armor. In fact Sovereigns are far easy to destroy, as a most other Federation ships. Dont come me with the 2 Defense over the NeghVar. I lost far less NeghVars than I lost Sovereigns in the same battle circumstances. I agree with you, they are a defense oriented faction. But this is not in the gameplay at the moment. The Sovereign is not fine at the moment - it is simple useless.

It is a very expensive ship, even more expensive than a NeghVar (who is a very expensive ship too, because it was build with the pride of the Empire in mind, not for being economic efficient. But you get nothing worth the money.

Fed ships should be expensive, they are one of the more advanced factions after all and they have many things aboard who cost "useless" money like holodecks or recreational stuff. I said it before, the Federation should not be the "I spam you with 1000 ships" faction.

The price of the Sovereign can stay or even be increased imo - IF it is finally a ship to deserve that name.