Sovereign Class - Durability Issues

posted on March 8th, 2009, 11:46 am

Maybe the feds should automatically win when they build the Sovie then.   :rolleyes:
Optec said they will look at it, u should be happy and stop moaning already. Well, if you expect a god-ship then u will never stop moaning I guess....


Oh the horror!

Hm, it's not like the other races don't have at least one (sometimes 2 or 3) ships that are either A: Singularly overpowered, but limited (tavara, V-15), or extremely effective in their own right as a basis for a fleet (v-13, breen battleship, the klingon artillery ship (can't recall the name), generix support refit, assimilators, spheres, cubes)

I'm not complaining that other races are overpowered, in all actuality I think the balance with the races is near perfect...

But the federation late game is still a little underwhelming. Yes, you have the defiants - great for killing the "super ships" of the other races.

Yes, you have the avalon (if you pick that avatar... which tbh is the only avatar worth a damn anyways) - which is great for base defense.

And you have the phalanx... which is overpriced and underpowered... not really ALL that great (I sometimes build 3-4 end game for base assault and that's it).


The new changes to credits have helped the feds A LOT... more phalanxes, more avalons is good. I think the phalanx could use a small increase in firepower, and the sovereign a bit of an increase in defense, as well as a change in special weapon.

Currently, the sovereigns special weapon is, in my opinion, rather useless.

The engine killing was great in the original armada because of it's placement on steamrunners - kill enemy ships engines, move out of range to escape or to volley their fleet with artillery (w/aoe) - this was awesome

If we had the ability as the federation to build an artillery ship like the steamrunner - the engine kill would be awesome. Have your sovereigns in the thick of things - disable the fleet's engines - then have your artillery bombard them from a distance.

Sadly, this is hard to do because of the warp in of steamrunners, and the intrepids only being able to fire one artillery volley every millenia.


My suggestion to improve the sovereign is simple - remove the engine killing ability and give it an ability that focuses on it's role as a late-game assault ship.

My suggestion for this ability - pulse-fire quantum torpedoes. You see the Ent-E do this against the borg in First Contact, and it has generally been accepted as a "special ability" of the sovereign to fire these tri-shot quantums.

This would give it some nice assault power.

The alternative would be a multi-targetting phaser of some sort... or ablative armor/remodulating shields to up it's defense to insane levels (but the descent already has that so...)


I think the balance is just about spot on personally (still think the klingons need a tad bit of work on their mid-game ships (their middle shipyard is kinda useless atm... vorchas suck for some reason)... but the sovereign still bugs me.

Romulans I love... balance is near perfect on these guys and I find a use for just about every ship.

Dominion is awesome - but hard to get going - expensive tech tree (but once you get a fleet of v-13s and 2 dreads defending your base... plus some bombers.... your opponents better watch out).

Borg - has been win since 3.0

Klingons - Great skirmish warfare early game, shit middle game, late-game is OK with Negh'vars, still not my favorite race though (always end up with an assload of trit and no dilithium - their ships seem to be priced oddly).

posted on March 8th, 2009, 11:50 am

well i dont ask for a uber powerfull ship, i just want a ship that has a resonable cost vs usefullness balance. Not uber powerfull, but usefull. Actually the only one who i saw so far used the sovy as suicide fleetstopper actually (that one works good btw), but in real fights its to weak compared to cheaper federation ships, thats why we cry so loud  :lol:

posted on March 8th, 2009, 8:54 pm

got to agree with dark dragon, sovy needs more of a weapon increase, it has okay defense, (48)
but 36 weapon(or is it 38) wither way come on! a defiant shouldnt be able to take on a soverign, this is the feds flagship! and i think the phalanx isnt nearly as powerful to be a flagship, put it up to 50, and give it a different special weapon, as its current dosent seem to do much, and that sovy attack needs to be over 48, and new special weapon, i like the quantum topredos and such, maybye a corbon light reflector(which is cannon, seen in tng episode) and other, avalon needs a bit of an increase, as doese the descednt, i think 36 for a ship that size is very low bigger offese

posted on March 8th, 2009, 10:12 pm

You know what would be great. If ray started using paragraphs so hes' posts start making more sense. Another great thing would be if, instead of double posting, he'd click the edit button.
Stuff like this from THE biggest Feds need a BOOST member, makes me hate the feds as a race and everyone who like them.

Here's the deal. 36 (if it is 36) is indeed too low of an offence value for a sovie. Eventhough feds do base their ships primarily on defence, Sovies and Defiants especially have very formidable weapons and this should reflect in the game.
However the way some of you want to balance this is simply shocking! Yeah rank up the sovies offensive up to 50, leave the defence at 50 and also give it another hugely powerful special weapon and we're all set. <---- because of ideas like this threads like this fricking annoy me.

My thoughts on the sovie rebalance would be this: The problem with the Sovie (and Fed ships which were the base ships in a series or a movie) is that it is hard to actually make a game that would be balanced for all races and also keep the canon feeling from the movies. With all that said, I believe that Sovies stats should be about about 1,5 times greater than those of other capital battleships (excluding the Borg) with the basis still on the defence ofc.
So, if we generalize and say that the offence + defence values of capital ships is ~ 80 the sum for the sovie should be ~ 120. So lets say offense 50 and defence 70. This IMO would be a realistic value for the Sovie and it would give it more of a "special" capital battleship role she is serving now. 
To balance this out the Sovie would ofc need to be limited to 3-5 ships and its cost should also increase.

Oh and BTW Id also like to see a new model for the Sovie! (strange no one is nagging about that :O)

posted on March 8th, 2009, 10:17 pm

Assuming "corbon light reflector" means corbomite reflector, that is most definitely not canon...it was a bluff by James Kirk in a difficult situation. There is no TNG episode with any mention.
You may be thinking of the descripton of it in the A2 manual. And 48 attack for the sovie is way too much. Granted, she should be a match for the defiant, as far as I believe, but should not completely outgun it.

Phalanx is plenty fine..when used well a small few can take out whole fleets. Especially since the special weapon has such a short recharge, and improved performance with a little micro. Same for avalon and descent...although descent special recharge is a very long time...

And yes I was getting a bit annoyed about the sovy's appearance, I'm not sure if it's the model or textures though...

posted on March 8th, 2009, 11:05 pm

42 attack problem solved.

[Shril]

posted on March 9th, 2009, 1:48 am

Last edited by Shril on April 16th, 2009, 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

to the baron, *love's all around* and keep comments like that to yourself, and if thse posts annoy you dont read them

sovie 50 offense, and 70 defense is absurd, thats way to high, it needs to be moderatly adjusted, but not blown of out proportion,

as to mayhem, corbon light reflector, i kinda was thining of the metaphasic sheilding from the tng episode, cus that allowed it to reflect massive amount of heat and light, such as a phaser, so its kinda like a corbon liught reflector

[Rhaz]

posted on March 9th, 2009, 2:26 am

Last edited by Rhaz on March 9th, 2009, 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

How about just change the tooltip, for the whiners. XD

posted on March 9th, 2009, 3:38 am

Woa guys calm down, keep it intelligible and polite (ish? ...maybe )

posted on March 9th, 2009, 4:45 am

Sorry...it's just this thread is so...the third thread of its type.

posted on March 9th, 2009, 5:01 am

Assuming "corbon light reflector" means corbomite reflector, that is most definitely not canon...it was a bluff by James Kirk in a difficult situation. There is no TNG episode with any mention.
You may be thinking of the descripton of it in the A2 manual. And 48 attack for the sovie is way too much. Granted, she should be a match for the defiant, as far as I believe, but should not completely outgun it.

Phalanx is plenty fine..when used well a small few can take out whole fleets. Especially since the special weapon has such a short recharge, and improved performance with a little micro. Same for avalon and descent...although descent special recharge is a very long time...

And yes I was getting a bit annoyed about the sovy's appearance, I'm not sure if it's the model or textures though...

why should the Sov not outgun the defiant?
In First contact itself it came in as a stronger ship than the defiant. The Sov would definitely have a higher shield output, and more weapons to boot than the Defiant - more launchers and more phaser banks.

posted on March 9th, 2009, 5:47 am

yeah, the sov should defiantly out gun a defiant, a defiant is basically, the most weapons in a small package, the sov can take more hits, and dish out more hits, it has a better power system, and also the defiant is pron t4o problems with everything so cloxe togehter, i love the defiant, but its emphazise is attack, it should have a higher attack, not higher then the socys, and a lower defense, then the defiants attack,

the sovys defense and offense should be higner the nthe dfiants, period

do defiant, maybye 40-42 offense, 36-38 defense?,

sovy, 44-48 defense, and 40-50 offense

posted on March 9th, 2009, 7:36 am

sovie 50 offense, and 70 defense is absurd, thats way to high, it needs to be moderatly adjusted, but not blown of out proportion,

Considering your suggestion was 50/50 and a new special weapon without any other limitations, I find it funny that you think my suggestion is absurd.

to the baron, stfu and keep comments like that to yourself, and if thse posts annoy you dont read them

Only your posts annoy me my friend, thats why I wrote what was the problem and your posts have already improved with the addition of paragraphs

Sorry...it's just this thread is so...the third thread of its type.

Completely agree with you here, the funny thing is that when these threads close ray actually makes a new thread saying how many replies the old thread got. 
However I find this more reasonable than talk about how galaxy, which is a free ship, needs stats of 40/50 which would actually further increase when you'd engage the almighty saucer seperation...
But apparently my ideas are absurd.


Well the bottom line in this thread (for me at least): Sovie must be made more special.

posted on March 9th, 2009, 7:43 am

well im saying for the cost and build time right now, for the sovie, thats higher then the descent class, those values for descent should be put in place, but for sovie there to high,

i never stated 50/50 i belive i said sovy, 44-48 defense, and 40-50 offense

i still dont get if you dislike me or what

and as ive staed about the galaxy thread, i was kinda bored at 330 with blizard outside

and how would stats for galaxy increase when it seperated, its the same ship, just in to piece, the stardrive would get a small boost from extra torpedo launcher, and maybye a cordinateed attack ability, but thats about it

and i agree, sovie right now, is very dull,

posted on March 9th, 2009, 8:14 am

and how would stats for galaxy increase when it seperated, its the same ship, just in to piece, the stardrive would get a small boost from extra torpedo launcher, and maybye a cordinateed attack ability, but thats about it

Oh you have got to be kidding me. We argued this same thing to death in one of the threads, with you and some other fella going on and on how its stats should improve when seperated. But thats besides the point right now.

Lets just say that the team needs to make the Sovie better, however they might choose fit.