Breen Cruiser may be underpowered.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 3:49 pm

Breen cloak retreat? You do realize they hav 10 system value, 90 speed, SSEC, and cloaking takes three seconds right? K'Vorts often lose weapons systems while cloaking, but they have a good 120 speed so they don't really need the cloak once they get a little ways out of enemy range. Breen have 90 speed, pretty much everything will be able to catch up to them and kill them if they lose weapons system while cloaking. They can easily lose engines too, that's not gonna be a Cruiser in your fleet for quite a while.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 3:55 pm

Breen cloak retreat? You do realize they hav 10 system value, 90 speed, SSEC, and cloaking takes three seconds right? K'Vorts often lose weapons systems while cloaking, but they have a good 120 speed so they don't really need the cloak once they get a little ways out of enemy range. Breen have 90 speed, pretty much everything will be able to catch up to them and kill them if they lose weapons system while cloaking. They can easily lose engines too, that's not gonna be a Cruiser in your fleet for quite a while.

they'll be at long range, and u cloak them first. while the enemy fires on some of the smaller ships. if done right u wont lose a single cruiser. just like kvorts. kvorts are worse as they have to stay at short range. just cloak your cruisers the second the enemy appears, and the smaller ships will escape with their speed. breens are tricky to use at harassing, but it is possible.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:05 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 20th, 2010, 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You can't always get the enemy to fire on the ships you want, some people actually make smart moves and don't target Bugs.
Even if my Breen are at long range, a cloaking enemy could decloak behind them (since my Breen came in uncloaked, they were easily spotted.) Or Feds could circle around with some of their speedy little early game ships. Those smaller faster ships to distract from Breen would die way too fast to escape and the whole point of having smaller ships distract as Dominion is so the other ships are the damage dealers. Breen don't do very much damage unless the enemy is spamming mediums or battleships.
By harassment, I assume you mean attacking part of their fleet, as Breen do such reduced damage to stations and miners except for Dom or Borg miners? I'm a little unclear as to the definition in FO.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:07 pm

You can't always get the enemy to fire on the ships you want, some people actually make smart moves and don't target Bugs.
Even if my Breen are at long range, a cloaking enemy could decloak behind them (since my Breen came in uncloaked, they were easily spotted.) Or Feds could circle around with some of their speedy little early game ships. Those smaller faster ships to distract from Breen would die way too fast to escape and the whole point of having smaller ships distract as Dominion is so the other ships are the damage dealers. Breen don't do very much damage unless the enemy is spamming mediums or battleships.

the ai of the enemy's ships will fire at the first ship they come in range of.

by this time your breens will already be cloaking.

its not perfect, but its doable.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:14 pm

Ok, i think it a dead cause... We have mentioned both the countering and mixing problems, but you just refuse to see it.  Maybe the problem is,  that funny has also proved, ppl have so bad memories with the cruisers that, they dont want to see them again ever.

  With respect, we see exactly what you're saying.  I feel that the problem here is that you refuse to TRY using the Breen for anything other that what YOU'RE used to.  You have such GOOD memories of Breen Cruisers doing well against everything that you're unwilling to attempt a new purpose.

    Look man ... ------>  I  <------- can make good use of Breen Cruisers.  Because of the fact that I can, it tells me that you're not trying hard enough .  There are others here telling you how to use them.  Please go TRY before you assume that we're just not listening .


  Oh, and your list from earlier of what the Breen SHOULD counter was not correct .

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:16 pm

Well then Boggz, what should they counter in your opinion?

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:24 pm

Regarding the 'lose cloak' thing...aren't the Breen Cruisers the ones with that hideous passive that ensures they never, ever, ever, ever lose weapons?  Which also prevents Polaron Field and Nanites from decloaking them?

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:27 pm

Regarding the 'lose cloak' thing...aren't the Breen Cruisers the ones with that hideous passive that ensures they never, ever, ever, ever lose weapons?  Which also prevents Polaron Field and Nanites from decloaking them?

thats veterans only that get the passive that means they never ever lose weapons system.

all breen cruisers start with single stage energy conduits (SSEC) like the kvort and leahval which means they do extra damage to medium ranged stuff, but lose subsystems in general faster. making cloaking riskier as if weapons die you are screwed.

[Elim]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:29 pm

Last edited by Elim on August 20th, 2010, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

With all the respect Boggz, I played a LOT with doms in the latter times. (I guess we live in so different timezones, that we cant see online each other much  :( )

Well then Boggz, what should they counter in your opinion?

You made me curious too!

Mod: Before you tell me.... i can handle pure doms pretty well. (there are some good players who can confirm it, Sütee, Beat for example , but its obvious im still far from the so-called veterans skill level)

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:32 pm

Because of the fact that I can, it tells me that you're not trying hard enough

Ok now its your word against his. So maybe someone should do a game that gets replayed so we can see that magnificant use of Breenships. Its the same thing with Dominus and his "numberz perk"...You can tell everyone that YOU are the chosen that can handle those underestimated ships. But without a proove its worthless to discuss this.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:44 pm

Well, against the AI the Breen Cruisers are really useful if you are without mixed tech because otherwise you have no cloaking ships... but otherwise... i'll keep my mouth shut.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:48 pm

i'll keep my mouth shut.

good, dissenting opinions will not be tolerated in the collective

you will be assimilated

your biological and technological distinctiveness will be destroyed

your ideas will be discarded.

but seriously, everyone can contribute here, with any ideas. dont shut your mouth.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:51 pm

Look guys, I'm not going to do any replays or anything showing how to use Breen Cruisers effectively.  They are long ranged, torpedo-armed cruisers with 50% Hull/50% Shields that do extra damage to Battleships and base damage to Cruisers AND have SSEC to do extra to medium range AND have cloak.

 If you guys can't figure that out on your own .... c'mon ....

You want a counter list?  You made one yourself, you just don't know how those matchups work.

Breen cruiser has 90 speed
- Sphere, has 100 speed, you will never catch a single one...
- Cube, nanites+ single stage energy conduits... the resoults are ugly...

  Well ... I would hope that by the time you're facing a Cube you've got more than a handful of Breen Cruisers.  Breen will do LOADS of damage to Cubes because they will never miss, do extra to battleships, AND do extra to medium range.  If they have Nanites, you are in the same boat as any other race.  It's not a fault of the Breen, it's a fault of the Nanites.

 As for Spheres, the Sphere has an inherent ability to "dance".  That's not a fault of the Breen.  You stay at max range and unload on the thing while moving forward.  Other ships like Bugs can be used to ram it and keep it still.  It's not easy but it does work.  S-2 powering up Breen will do enormous damage to Spheres because, like Cubes, they are medium ranged and large size.

- Sovereign, actually it counters pretty well, it has the same speed as
the cruiser, but if feds spam sovs (it is very rare indeed), maybe
you will have the time to have the engine upgrades
- Galaxy, tactical weapons array, 100 speed no more commentation needed...
- Descent, same speed as the cruiser (LOL)  (Descent spam? )

  Breen will slaughter all these units.  They are all:
A.  Large sized (will not miss)
B.  Battleship Class (extra damage)
C.  Medium Ranged (extra damage)

  Lol ... Tactical weapons on the Galaxy doesn't matter.  Torpedoes will miss 20% of the time on the Breen.  2 Breen will easily destroy a Galaxy.  

 

- Luspet, 110 speed, short range....
- Bortas, same (Bortas spam? )
- Neghvar, 110 speed, short range....

 I feel like a Broken record ...  Large battleships .. never miss, extra damage.  Luspets will get trounced by Breen.  Neggies will also get trounced.  They may have TWA, but they are more vulnerable in my opinion.

- Cehlaer, 100 speed long range....
- Eresis, yeas at least medium ranged battleship!! oh but 130 speed LOL
- D'deridex, uh-uh-uh, meduim ranged battleship!! with 90 speed,
maybe you can catch one with, engine upgrades and cloak detection...
- Norexan, Tactical Weapon Arrays... (same speed)
- Tavara, uh-uh-uh at least something! Tavara spam? LOL again...

 Cehlaer:  extra damage canceled out by High Density Shields.  Still won't miss though.  These are a decent counter to Breen.
 Eresis:  Medium ranged large battleship.  That's all she wrote.  We've been over this.  Speed is irrelevant.  They can't win battles by not fighting you .
 Big D:  Large sized medium ranged battleship.  
 Norexan:  Tossup.  They both counter the other, but Breen still get better damage overall.  Breen are WAAAAAAAY cheaper than Norexans ....  Large sized medium range Battleship.  
 Tavara:  Large size medium range battleship  :rolleyes:

- aaaand v-13, yes it killis v-13s, but again same speed lol, BUT
breen cruiser costs 493,150,34
v-13 costs, 566,162,59  so, can you outnumber them?
I gues not....

  If it's one on one V-13 vs. Breen, yes ... you're in trouble.  Tactics anyone?  Strategy?  Macro + Micro?

Lets see what are breen cruisers made for!
Killing Sovereigns (with engine upgrades)
Killing D'deridex (also with engine upgrades)

Man! You are right, breen cruisers are Super-Awesome!

 The funniest part about this is that you listed so many of the uses for Breen, you just had no idea what you were talking about  :crybaby:

Your biggest problem with them over and over seems to be a lack of speed and the inability to "catch" anything.

  Dude .... not everything is an interceptor.  If things couldn't get away from the fucking Breen we'd all be here bitching about how the Breen own everything and there's no way to ... to ....  wait ... we've already DONE that ... it was called 3.07 and 3.11  :woot:

 

 The biggest reason why you don't think they're that useful is because rarely do people get out battleships anymore.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 5:10 pm

Its the same thing with Dominus and his "numberz perk"...You can tell everyone that YOU are the chosen that can handle those underestimated ships. But without a proove its worthless to discuss this.

Drrrrr, you'd be wise to leave personal arguments out of this and to respect your elders . You should try talking less and playing more, maybe you'd improve your game

[Elim]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 6:05 pm

Last edited by Elim on August 20th, 2010, 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, I was hesitating to argue with the mighty Boggz, but I feel,
I must try  to defend my opinion at least with reason.

Quote from: Boggz
  Well ... I would hope that by the time you're facing a Cube you've got more
than a handful of Breen Cruisers.  Breen will do LOADS of damage to Cubes because
they will never miss, do extra to battleships, AND do extra to medium range.  If
they have Nanites, you are in the same boat as any other race.  It's not a fault of
the Breen, it's a fault of the Nanites.

As for Spheres, the Sphere has an inherent ability to "dance".  That's not a
fault of the Breen.  You stay at max range and unload on the thing while moving forward.
  Other ships like Bugs can be used to ram it and keep it still.  It's not easy but it does work
.  S-2 powering up Breen will do enormous damage to Spheres because, like Cubes, they are medium
ranged and large size.

1. You suggest to not use them aginst cubes, istead use those ships that doesnt made for countering
large size medium range battleships. Interesting...

2. Yes other races suffer from nanites too, but not nearly as much as ssec ships, they tend to
even loose thier shields from nanites... (and other ssec ships are not for fighting cubes...)

3. Sphere dance and bug ramming.. try it, the spheres will loose thier engines for 2 seconds, and
even without it, they will keep to float to escape direction with thier 100 speed.

4. And yes you said it too s-2s are much better aginst spheres, you suggest to waste the s-2s
firepower to enhanche breen firing rate, because its clear they wont be able to fire on the spheres,
as they will be far behind supporting the crusers...


Quote from: Boggz
Breen will slaughter all these units.  They are all:
A.  Large sized (will not miss)
B.  Battleship Class (extra damage)
C.  Medium Ranged (extra damage)

Lol ... Tactical weapons on the Galaxy doesn't matter.
  Torpedoes will miss 20% of the time on the Breen.  2 Breen
will easily destroy a Galaxy. 

1. Im sure one of the cruisers will suffer heavy damage in this theoretical fight,
and highly likely it will loose its engines, or life support, or weapons on the battlefield..
That means you loose one for a free ship...

Quote from: Boggz
I feel like a Broken record ...  Large battleships .. never miss, extra damage.
  Luspets will get trounced by Breen.  Neggies will also get trounced.  They may
have TWA, but they are more vulnerable in my opinion.

1. The speed and cloak will comletely cancel your range advantage, klingon ships will easily
fly out from your firing arc (as Arash has mentioned the problem before me), and yes they have limited too, but with this they can cloak out, and run when damaged.

2. You suggest, that the breen cruisers, that take extra damage from the neggie,
and are more sensitive to subsystem damage, are the sturdy ones? intresting....

Quote from: Boggz
Eresis:  Medium ranged large battleship.  That's all she wrote.  We've been over this. 
Speed is irrelevant.  They can't win battles by not fighting you Cheesy.
Big D:  Large sized medium ranged battleship.   rolleyes
Norexan:  Tossup.  They both counter the other, but Breen still get better damage overall. 
Breen are WAAAAAAAY cheaper than Norexans ....  Large sized medium range Battleship.
Tavara:  Large size medium range battleship 

Speed is irrevelant? You cant be serious... they can avoid the fight all day and destroy
your mining and yards, while your cruisers crawl slowly on the battlefield (yes you can
try it too, and go for thier mining but your agression will be pointless, because breens
are very bad aginst mining and stations.), and they dont even need to cloak out to run from
you...

We can countinue it forever... I have to agree with Drrrrr, without proving things this is
pointless.
Its clear your words have more weight on the forum, and it is ok with your experience, but
im not sure that will be enough aginst the common sense, that they are not useful.
Again I dont want to have any argument to get become personal, thats simply dont worth to me,
so Im saying everything with fully respect, you have proven many times that im wrong, but this
time, I feel (along with some others) I have some reason behind the words.

Mod: I just took a look to the vote, and actually it seems, ppl are mostly ok with the cruiser...
So may be im wrong. I didnt want to leave the topic as a complete idiot, so maybe my last post should be ignored...