Breen Cruiser may be underpowered.

posted on August 19th, 2010, 10:36 pm

I've noticed that some people on Tunngle think Breen Cruisers are weak, and I have seen that in action. I have only once seen someone use Breen Cruisers, and that was against Frigate Generixes, he only won once I helped him with my K'Vorts.

I'll lay out a brief list of the problems that add up to make the Breen ship very weak in my opinion.
-Can only cloak once before recharging energy.
-Limited firing arc.
-Reduced damage to small ships on top of miss chances that negates any counter thru its SSEC.
-Slow speed.
-Breen Battleship fulfills the same role, only better in most aspects.

Boggz has said that the Breen Cruiser is fine the way it is now. I'm not so sure I agree. I want to get a sense of how the overall community feels about Breen Cruisers, that's why I made this a poll.

posted on August 19th, 2010, 11:15 pm

I don't know.  I only play Breen for the engine speed tech, and the cheaper teching.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 12:19 am

There is a reason they had to be balanced over and over - they were an easily spammed unit. Now that they are very good medium killers - and especially medium battleship killers - they finally have a role that isn't ubiquitous.

[Boggz]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 12:30 am

Last edited by Boggz on August 20th, 2010, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

There is a reason they had to be balanced over and over - they were an easily spammed unit. Now that they are very good medium killers - and especially medium battleship killers - they finally have a role that isn't ubiquitous.

   Yaaaaay you have to use your brain when you play with them!!!

  EDIT:  Oh, and Neb:  may I suggest you at least TRY and use them for the purposes I suggested?  If you use them to target specific things while other ships in your fleet take the heat, you'll find that they are pretty badass .

posted on August 20th, 2010, 1:20 am

I voted they are too powerful because they need to be punished from all the hell they've caused in 3.0.7

posted on August 20th, 2010, 1:32 am

Neb, if I had a dollar for every thread you've made about a ship being overpowered/underpowered...

posted on August 20th, 2010, 3:19 am

Weakest faction in the game .... 

posted on August 20th, 2010, 4:27 am

Neb, if I had a dollar for every thread you've made about a ship being overpowered/underpowered...

I'm still waiting for the thread about how the feds can outproduce everyone faster because of their slower build times are slower 

[Elim]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 11:33 am

Last edited by Elim on August 20th, 2010, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think my "complaining" about breen started this topic... but after playing a lot games as breen(im pretty familiar with puretech), i must to admit they are not so "overnerfed" as i thought before, but all  the other small yard vessels are better in my opinion. I dont know.... maybe deves could give back thier firing arc, or some speed buff... The biggest problem with them is, they are so damn slow that you cant use them mixed with the other speedy dominion ships, if you try it, then cloakers will make you stuipid angry with hit and runs, or just track and engage you 2v1. (team games)

Offtopic: Please devs give back my precious B-8, as I really dont know how to fight romulans as pure in a 1v1.

Another offtopic fun fact after playing a lot of 1v1, or 1v1-like team games (you know what i mean...):

I discovered, that scubes dont really counter s-2s as they should be... i was able to punish borg so badly with a 50%-50% s-2/bug mix... even beat has fallen aginst them many times, and he is one of the most evil borg players out there.  Just try it, it works so well you will be suprised, and dodecs/assims are not an option in this case, im just really curious how borg can counter s-2 and bug ramming in the early game. (most ppl tend to rely heavily on bombers aginst borg but s-2s just seem so much better that i dont know what borg can do about it in the early game)
Im looking for good borg players to do some friendly 1v1 research!

Sorry for doing so much offtopic crap

PS: sorry Neb, but  in my opinion, dominion is just one of the strongest factions in the game. (especially late game) Yes they are much harder to learn then stupid simple feds, but the prize really worth the effort. 

posted on August 20th, 2010, 11:38 am

1) breens are fine, they used to be op, now they're not

2) dominion are not weak if you know how to play them. they are one of the hardest races to get right, but once u get good at them you will love how good they are.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 11:55 am

i request more nerfing to the breen cruiser because of 3.07!

posted on August 20th, 2010, 12:25 pm

1) breens are fine, they used to be op, now they're not

2) dominion are not weak if you know how to play them. they are one of the hardest races to get right, but once u get good at them you will love how good they are.

This is a high quality post man!

1. can you explain why they are fine? In 80% of all games as Breen avatar people dont use the Breenships since they are extremly slow and only do significant damage to Battleships (not early- or mid-game)

2. So i guess YOU know how to play them...please share your magnificant knowledge about mastering the Dominion. So we can learn and find out Dominion is not weak to certain races by our own. And you can prove your skill by facing e.g. Assim Borg.

posted on August 20th, 2010, 12:37 pm

This is a high quality post man!

thank you, i strive for excellence.

1. can you explain why they are fine? In 80% of all games as Breen avatar people dont use the Breenships since they are extremly slow and only do significant damage to Battleships (not early- or mid-game)

just because 80% (where did u get this number?) of people ignore a ship doesnt make it bad. 80% (making up the number ) of people ignore the sabre, but does that make the sabre bad? of course not. 80% (again for illustrative purposes only) of people need to read the guide and learn that sabres can be nice.

u say they are extremely slow and are best vs battleships, this is true, this is their purpose. they used to be generally useful, to the point of being op, thats why they were nerfed. they now have a specific use, rather than always being useful. and you know what, i love that. i dont want all ships to be useful always. i like that sometimes the breen cruiser is a bad choice, like sometimes bugs are a bad choice, sometimes t15 are a bad choice..... the breen cruiser is fine, build it when u need it, dont cry its underpowered if u found it worked bad if u werent using it for its purpose.

also romulans can go for a battleship as their first ship, so breen cruisers would flatten warbird rush. also it does nice damage to medium ships that arent small.

of course dont spam it, as it is a specialist. mix them in.

their cloak is also awesome. u can be sneaky and cloak before u attack, but sacrifice the ability to cloak and run. or come in visible, then cloak after killing a miner or two.

2. So i guess YOU know how to play them...please share your magnificant knowledge about mastering the Dominion. So we can learn and find out Dominion is not weak to certain races by our own. And you can prove your skill by facing e.g. Assim Borg.

yup i do know how to play dominion and not get pwned, i admit it took me quite a while to get used to playing them, but the dominion race cant be blamed if people arent playing it right. the founders know all.

i dont need to prove my skill, i'm not that petty, i play fo for fun not for pride.

[Elim]

posted on August 20th, 2010, 1:31 pm

Last edited by Elim on August 20th, 2010, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Myles, in most cases, you got the point, but now i have to agree with Drrrrr. You dont see the biggest problem with them, that they are so inmobile that you cant mix them to other dom ships.... Just watch the guide....(or try it ingame, i did it many times) every single dom ship is much faster than breen cruisers, and yes you can send your fleet on the same speed as the cruisers, but then you loose the biggest advantage of the dominion, the mobility. And this is the key of playing with them, flexibility and speed....  Being slow with dominion is especially bad aginst feds, they will have about the same speed as you but they have MUCH higher defense...

In my opinion, breen ships now just doesnt fit in the dom fleet...
About the numbers of ppl inoring them: if you play online you can see how slight nuber of ppl use them, maybe they dont know the exact reason, but they feel that they are wrong...

LOL Funny, do you think its ok the nerf a ship to be completely useless, because they were so op in an earlier patch?...you can't be serious man....

I don't suggest to buff them oversuperdupergodlikespammableallrounder... BUT, maybe they could use some reasonable adjustment, for example: make them faster a bit about 110 speed, and decrease thier offense (or/and) thier defense capabilities.  That would make them to fit better in the dominion fleet.

PS: and if you think engine upgrade is an option in a 1v1 game that proves you never tried to use them aginst a not completey noobish player...

posted on August 20th, 2010, 1:43 pm

I'm not a fan of 1v1, personally.  It's normally a game of 'who can rush the mining first'.  I prefer larger, more complex games, particularly FFA, where you are constantly having to watch your flanks, because you have no allies, only enemies.  A situation where a blend of turtle and fleet is well advised, frankly, because if you send the bulk of your fleet out, someone else is sure to pounce on you...unless you've got enough emplaced firepower (well-placed at that) to discourage that, or buy you time to get back and save your base.

So to me, yes, the engine upgrade is beautiful.  Changes the battlefield dramatically.  Even against Klingons, who can do the same thing.