StA2_Classic Mod: Different Questions & Modeling Mods After
posted on February 28th, 2013, 2:54 am
posted on February 28th, 2013, 4:45 am
@rifraf: I have been trying to find out whose been trying to create standalone mods and have them reply here, but it seems that this is one major fact is being over looked. I don't know who has been making any standalone mods and apparently Blade doesn't even remember what he did to make it work (his words not mine). Also it seems that after the STA2_Classic Mod was released everyone stopped even attempting to make a mod with stock A2. I've checked/searched for other threads of that nature and they have all ceased being used. Can't easily get the information from others if they aren't even attempting it or if they've forgotten what they did for it to work. In hindsight, it's clear a guide for this type of modding/conversion should have also been made. 
Really to you and others it might not sound ridiculous but when you actually take time to think about what the label.map file actually does then it really does become ridiculous when anyone who is making their own mod and has created their own unique missions will in fact need their own unique label.map file because that file in conjunction with the mshell.SET file govern the names of the missions. The mshell.SET file points to the bzn files (in game Maps) for those missions well the label.map file gives you the text on the buttons that you click on in the game to select the mission you want to play when starting the campaigns when your not automatically advanced to the next mission after completing one. Knowing that does it even seem logical to delete the label.map file and rely on the one in the STA2_Classic Mod? Does it even seem right knowing that that any mod that changes that file due to different mission names than the stock game would want to use the STA2_Classic Mod as a parent? I bet if SquireJames had changed the mission names for his KA2 Mod(and any other mod that he chooses to create for FleetOps) that he wouldn't want to have to rely on the label.map file in the STA2_Classic Mod because he wouldn't get his unique mission names if he did. Now am I right or am I wrong?
I really think I've raised a very strong point for standalone mods and not using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod for anyone that is wanting to or is making a unique mod for the FleetOps Mods Directory that doesn't use the stock missions it their names. Think about the disappointment they'd have, they'd have to make their mod for stock A2 and abandon all the unique FleetOps features that they would have wanted to use. (I'm not saying this to be rude or disrespectful to anyone here, just attempting to state a very important fact that I think everyone overlooked the moment the STA2_Classic Mod came out. Maybe I'm the first to verbally come out and say such a thing, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has actually been thinking about it. I'd actually hate to be the only one who has actually took the time to thought about it.
)
I have looked in the Modifications Section and haven't found anything that seems to help in making a standalone mod. I've even searched the forms with the search bar using the terms "standalone", "mods". Heck, I've even done a Google search with "FleetOps and Stock Mods not using STA2_Classic as a parent" and that hasn't even helped. Maybe I'm searching the wrong terms but I can't think of any other terms that fits what I want to do.
First, my hard drive is a total of 571GB with only 403GB of free space but from experience I've learned that having less stuff installed on a hard drive is better than having a lot of stuff, especially games and mods because any computer or hard drive error and you can lose everything and there are just some things that you can't backup and will be lost forever. I don't take that risk. The only games installed on my laptop's hard drive are Star Trek Online, Star Trek Legacy, Star Trek Armada I, my non-FleetOps version of my STA2_Generational Mod, a game called CrossFire, Battle Stations Midway and the rest are essential programs for everyday use that I need where ever I go with my laptop.
On an External Hard Drive I have backups of my mods, and minor programs installed. That hard drive has its own issues due to its own builtin software and I don't trust it even though it has 82.6GB of free space of 149GB total.
My FleetOps install is on a Flash Drive (that I can take anywheres and use on any computer to play). That Flash Drive used to be a 4GB Flash Drive but it couldn't hold FleetOps, Tunngle, a stock version of A2, STA2_Classic and my STA2_Generational Mod so I got a 16GB one but for some strange reason it has a total of 14.9GB total (formatted it to get rid of the Pre-installed programs and that didn't help). Right now with all the above mentioned programs on its original 4GB Flash Drive, it only has 4.11GB of free space (see why I say valuable space?). I'm thinking about getting a 1 Terabyte Flash Drive and transfer my entire 16GB (14.9GB) Flash Drives contents to that but they are just very expensive to get, especially when lately I've been thinking about donating to FleetOps as well.
Either way, I don't mind if you let me know if you run into any problems with transferring your mod to FleetOps using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod, but I'd find it more interesting if you'd actually try making your mod a Standalone Mod that way you'd actually be doing something that's more of a challenge and isn't "well" taking the easy way out, because either way you using STA2_Classic as a Parent Mod honestly won't really give me any help, now would it? (I mean no offense with that statement.)
*****
Ok, I need to know the exact coding for Fleet Caps, aka the coding that replaces the "Max Buildable Number" coding from the Patch Project 1.2.5 Patch, I've tried checking the guide and the FPQEdit file inside FleetOps to access the ODF files for the ships but it isn't very easy to ascertain the information I'm requiring. The guide gives too much coding it seems in this area which doesn't make sense with half the things it's saying. A lot of coding to replace one line of coding from the Patch Project, it just doesn't make sense to me.
To further off, some ships I want to be able to be built to a point then totally stopped to never have access to again, well others I want to be able to only build the amount of ships that are equal to the number of craft names in the given ships or stations ODF file and then when all or some are destroyed (or inadvertently decommissioned) that replacements can be built. This is only because I don't like how the game recycles ship and station names by giving a "-A" and so on lettering after the name if there is another unit already sharing that name within your ships and stations in play of that class.
I've asked about this coding before and wasn't given a coherent answer to my inquiry. I want to rectify that problem since that coding is needed for a Generational mod to easily advance from one generation to the next.
I realize what you are doing is different and having so many problems with it, but as it stands the A2 Classic mod was written and implemented to be used as a parent mod to any other stock A2 mod so the guide instructs you to delete the label.map file in your mod as the game will use the one in the A2 Classic mod folder, not so ridiculous.
Really to you and others it might not sound ridiculous but when you actually take time to think about what the label.map file actually does then it really does become ridiculous when anyone who is making their own mod and has created their own unique missions will in fact need their own unique label.map file because that file in conjunction with the mshell.SET file govern the names of the missions. The mshell.SET file points to the bzn files (in game Maps) for those missions well the label.map file gives you the text on the buttons that you click on in the game to select the mission you want to play when starting the campaigns when your not automatically advanced to the next mission after completing one. Knowing that does it even seem logical to delete the label.map file and rely on the one in the STA2_Classic Mod? Does it even seem right knowing that that any mod that changes that file due to different mission names than the stock game would want to use the STA2_Classic Mod as a parent? I bet if SquireJames had changed the mission names for his KA2 Mod(and any other mod that he chooses to create for FleetOps) that he wouldn't want to have to rely on the label.map file in the STA2_Classic Mod because he wouldn't get his unique mission names if he did. Now am I right or am I wrong?
I really think I've raised a very strong point for standalone mods and not using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod for anyone that is wanting to or is making a unique mod for the FleetOps Mods Directory that doesn't use the stock missions it their names. Think about the disappointment they'd have, they'd have to make their mod for stock A2 and abandon all the unique FleetOps features that they would have wanted to use. (I'm not saying this to be rude or disrespectful to anyone here, just attempting to state a very important fact that I think everyone overlooked the moment the STA2_Classic Mod came out. Maybe I'm the first to verbally come out and say such a thing, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has actually been thinking about it. I'd actually hate to be the only one who has actually took the time to thought about it.
)Look through the modification forum under the completed mods section and find out what others did to get theirs to work and just be patient and someone may come along and assist you.
I have looked in the Modifications Section and haven't found anything that seems to help in making a standalone mod. I've even searched the forms with the search bar using the terms "standalone", "mods". Heck, I've even done a Google search with "FleetOps and Stock Mods not using STA2_Classic as a parent" and that hasn't even helped. Maybe I'm searching the wrong terms but I can't think of any other terms that fits what I want to do.
I've almost completed my personal mod for STA2. Once complete I intend to add it to the Fleet Ops mod folder and use the Classic mod as a parent. I have a 500GB HD so space is no issue. I'll let you know if I run into any problems if you're interested.
First, my hard drive is a total of 571GB with only 403GB of free space but from experience I've learned that having less stuff installed on a hard drive is better than having a lot of stuff, especially games and mods because any computer or hard drive error and you can lose everything and there are just some things that you can't backup and will be lost forever. I don't take that risk. The only games installed on my laptop's hard drive are Star Trek Online, Star Trek Legacy, Star Trek Armada I, my non-FleetOps version of my STA2_Generational Mod, a game called CrossFire, Battle Stations Midway and the rest are essential programs for everyday use that I need where ever I go with my laptop.
On an External Hard Drive I have backups of my mods, and minor programs installed. That hard drive has its own issues due to its own builtin software and I don't trust it even though it has 82.6GB of free space of 149GB total.
My FleetOps install is on a Flash Drive (that I can take anywheres and use on any computer to play). That Flash Drive used to be a 4GB Flash Drive but it couldn't hold FleetOps, Tunngle, a stock version of A2, STA2_Classic and my STA2_Generational Mod so I got a 16GB one but for some strange reason it has a total of 14.9GB total (formatted it to get rid of the Pre-installed programs and that didn't help). Right now with all the above mentioned programs on its original 4GB Flash Drive, it only has 4.11GB of free space (see why I say valuable space?). I'm thinking about getting a 1 Terabyte Flash Drive and transfer my entire 16GB (14.9GB) Flash Drives contents to that but they are just very expensive to get, especially when lately I've been thinking about donating to FleetOps as well.
Either way, I don't mind if you let me know if you run into any problems with transferring your mod to FleetOps using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod, but I'd find it more interesting if you'd actually try making your mod a Standalone Mod that way you'd actually be doing something that's more of a challenge and isn't "well" taking the easy way out, because either way you using STA2_Classic as a Parent Mod honestly won't really give me any help, now would it? (I mean no offense with that statement.)
*****
Ok, I need to know the exact coding for Fleet Caps, aka the coding that replaces the "Max Buildable Number" coding from the Patch Project 1.2.5 Patch, I've tried checking the guide and the FPQEdit file inside FleetOps to access the ODF files for the ships but it isn't very easy to ascertain the information I'm requiring. The guide gives too much coding it seems in this area which doesn't make sense with half the things it's saying. A lot of coding to replace one line of coding from the Patch Project, it just doesn't make sense to me.
To further off, some ships I want to be able to be built to a point then totally stopped to never have access to again, well others I want to be able to only build the amount of ships that are equal to the number of craft names in the given ships or stations ODF file and then when all or some are destroyed (or inadvertently decommissioned) that replacements can be built. This is only because I don't like how the game recycles ship and station names by giving a "-A" and so on lettering after the name if there is another unit already sharing that name within your ships and stations in play of that class.
I've asked about this coding before and wasn't given a coherent answer to my inquiry. I want to rectify that problem since that coding is needed for a Generational mod to easily advance from one generation to the next.
posted on February 28th, 2013, 10:02 am
Don't have much time, so I'll just answer one thing in there 
Regarding having ships become obsolete, I haven't tried this myself, but could you use the same functionality as research pods?
For example, take a Constitution. When you get the right research to get a Refit version, the build button changes to a Refit version and ergo you (as the player) can't build originals any more.
The AI has no such limitations, since it doesn't use build buttons etc.
As I said, haven't tried it, but worth a shot
Regarding having ships become obsolete, I haven't tried this myself, but could you use the same functionality as research pods?
For example, take a Constitution. When you get the right research to get a Refit version, the build button changes to a Refit version and ergo you (as the player) can't build originals any more.
The AI has no such limitations, since it doesn't use build buttons etc.
As I said, haven't tried it, but worth a shot
posted on February 28th, 2013, 6:13 pm
@SquireJames: I could see about the idea for ships functioning as research pods (believe your thinking like "Upgrade Pods" in stock A2, like the Upgrade Station) when being built for their build buttons at least for the Constitution-class as a trial idea. I'm not sure how to implement it though. For certain ships that I didn't care if the AI upgrades to (like in my mods case Refits) I use the "Replace Weapon" coding for the upgrade thanks to the Patch Project 1.2.5 Patch, this I at least know still works in FleetOps.
How would your idea affect the AI? I still want the AI to get to the Constitution-class Refit (sticking with the example). It sounds like it'd still have to be listed in a shipyard for the AI in that form.
I don't fully understand the idea or how a shipyard could have a secondary build menu. In a way that would save on the number of shipyards as well by having for example the ENT Era (2151 - 2161) and the TOS Era in one shipyard as the main build set, then a secondary build menu taking on the ships of the TMP Era and the TLE (The Lost Era). Then pickup away from this "Advancing Idea" for the stock shipyards and on, that way the campaign missions aren't affected by the "Generational Concept".
I actually really like this idea and hope that it could be implemented for both the FleetOps version and the stock version of the STA2_Generational Mod.
**My questions and ideas in my long Thursday night post are still in effect for those interested or have ideas.**
On that thought, like rifraf suggested I went through the Modifications Section without doing a search for any terms trying to see if any mods caught my eye that might be standalone mods not using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod for FleetOps using the Mods Directory and I bookmarked these pages on my iPad and iCloud gives me access to them on my laptop as well but the iPad is quicker.
Ok here are some of the mods that caught my eye either by their name or in what they were/are supposed to do. What I don't know is if they are still in production and if they have any ideas that could make my STA2_Generational Mod work as a standalone FleetOps Mod.
(1) K_merse's Armada II Evolution Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7052&time=1362071924 seems to be alittle like the idea I have for the STA2_Generational Mod other than his campaign idea.
*Either way, this is one mod that I want to keep my eye on. 
(2) TChapman500's Stock Armada 2 Rebalance Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=9164 This mod says that uts going to use the FleetOps engine which makes me believe that it's going to be a mod for the FleetOps Mods Directory and unless I'm wrong, it sounds like it is going to rebalance the STA2_Classic Mod. This makes me think that this mod isn't going to use the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Saturday June 25, 2011.
(3) Timberwolf1701's Legacy Of The Federation Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7211 What really catches me here is it sounds like it goes through 2409 the setting for Star Trek Online (since it says its going to the year 2420), which kind of gots my hopes up to even see some STO ships such as the Odyssey-class Tactical Cruiser that I've mentioned in another thread.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Wednesday October 17, 2012, so I'm hopeful this mod is actually still being made and hopefully uses the Mods Directory and will be compatible with future versions of FleetOps.
(4) TChapman500's Star Trek Armada II: New Century Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=10383 Seems this mods thread began a few days before his Rebalance Mod's thread ceased being used. I am guessing that means the Rebalance Mod idea died and this took its place? It seems like it because some of the ideas are the same. I just can't tell if this mod is going to be for the FleetOps Mods Directory.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Wednesday October 5, 2011, only a few months after they started so I'm guessing this project was never completed?
***Most likely, I really am going to need that 1 Terabyte Flash Drive I mentioned in my last posting that I'm thinking about getting. Not only to try out other mods via through the FleetOps Mods Directory but some people seem to mod the old versions if FleetOps which would just mean I'd need more space for multiple FleetOps version installs...
Or someone could try converting these mods to use the Mods Directory?
How would your idea affect the AI? I still want the AI to get to the Constitution-class Refit (sticking with the example). It sounds like it'd still have to be listed in a shipyard for the AI in that form.
I don't fully understand the idea or how a shipyard could have a secondary build menu. In a way that would save on the number of shipyards as well by having for example the ENT Era (2151 - 2161) and the TOS Era in one shipyard as the main build set, then a secondary build menu taking on the ships of the TMP Era and the TLE (The Lost Era). Then pickup away from this "Advancing Idea" for the stock shipyards and on, that way the campaign missions aren't affected by the "Generational Concept".
I actually really like this idea and hope that it could be implemented for both the FleetOps version and the stock version of the STA2_Generational Mod.
**My questions and ideas in my long Thursday night post are still in effect for those interested or have ideas.**
On that thought, like rifraf suggested I went through the Modifications Section without doing a search for any terms trying to see if any mods caught my eye that might be standalone mods not using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod for FleetOps using the Mods Directory and I bookmarked these pages on my iPad and iCloud gives me access to them on my laptop as well but the iPad is quicker.
Ok here are some of the mods that caught my eye either by their name or in what they were/are supposed to do. What I don't know is if they are still in production and if they have any ideas that could make my STA2_Generational Mod work as a standalone FleetOps Mod.
(1) K_merse's Armada II Evolution Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7052&time=1362071924 seems to be alittle like the idea I have for the STA2_Generational Mod other than his campaign idea.
*Either way, this is one mod that I want to keep my eye on.
(2) TChapman500's Stock Armada 2 Rebalance Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=9164 This mod says that uts going to use the FleetOps engine which makes me believe that it's going to be a mod for the FleetOps Mods Directory and unless I'm wrong, it sounds like it is going to rebalance the STA2_Classic Mod. This makes me think that this mod isn't going to use the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Saturday June 25, 2011.
(3) Timberwolf1701's Legacy Of The Federation Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7211 What really catches me here is it sounds like it goes through 2409 the setting for Star Trek Online (since it says its going to the year 2420), which kind of gots my hopes up to even see some STO ships such as the Odyssey-class Tactical Cruiser that I've mentioned in another thread.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Wednesday October 17, 2012, so I'm hopeful this mod is actually still being made and hopefully uses the Mods Directory and will be compatible with future versions of FleetOps.
(4) TChapman500's Star Trek Armada II: New Century Mod: //www.fleetops.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=10383 Seems this mods thread began a few days before his Rebalance Mod's thread ceased being used. I am guessing that means the Rebalance Mod idea died and this took its place? It seems like it because some of the ideas are the same. I just can't tell if this mod is going to be for the FleetOps Mods Directory.
***All posts for this topic ceased though on Wednesday October 5, 2011, only a few months after they started so I'm guessing this project was never completed?
***Most likely, I really am going to need that 1 Terabyte Flash Drive I mentioned in my last posting that I'm thinking about getting. Not only to try out other mods via through the FleetOps Mods Directory but some people seem to mod the old versions if FleetOps which would just mean I'd need more space for multiple FleetOps version installs...
Or someone could try converting these mods to use the Mods Directory?
posted on March 1st, 2013, 8:22 am
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 3:26 am
Attachments
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posted on March 2nd, 2013, 8:31 am
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 9:00 am
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 11:26 am
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 8:58 pm
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 10:56 pm
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 11:28 pm
@Dominus_Noctus: That's where you are wrong, nothing is being changed, in fact these bug reports are directly related to adding a perfectly working stock Armada II Mod into FleetOps and its Mods Directory. The stock version has NO bug reports what so ever and actually works, the problems start the moment it's added into FleetOps as a mod in both using the STA2_Classic Mod as a Parent Mod and also when not using the STA2_Classic Mod as a parent.
I have used the so call "handy search function" in the guide and even on the forums and it hasn't helped.
I searched for the Fleet Caps in the guide and it didn't make sense, i even have the page bookmarked on my iPad. I also checked the FleetOps ODF files like you said to and that made it even more confusin, especially since the guide says there are changes to the new upcoming version that affects the coding as well namely in this form:
That just makes problems worse because like it says in that quote: "Removed In FleetOps 4.0", so how honestly is that helpful if its going to be removed?
Then on top of that, all that Fleet Cp coding replaces one line of code:
Like I've said before after finding and bookmarking that page sometime ago was I don't understand all that coding, why there is so much extra code and if its all relevant?
With the setup to FleetOps ODF files to stock ODF files, FleetOps ODF files are confusing.
It's not a simple modification as its called in this quote from this page: //www.fleetops.net/info/about
Simple was stock A2, they kept their ODF files simple to support modding and set it up with // before coding telling you what it did/does. That made modding for me easy and understandable. Really wish FleetOps like that, no offense but the guide is confusing at times.
I have used the so call "handy search function" in the guide and even on the forums and it hasn't helped.
I searched for the Fleet Caps in the guide and it didn't make sense, i even have the page bookmarked on my iPad. I also checked the FleetOps ODF files like you said to and that made it even more confusin, especially since the guide says there are changes to the new upcoming version that affects the coding as well namely in this form:
Fleetcap Configuration Files (removed in FO4.0)
That just makes problems worse because like it says in that quote: "Removed In FleetOps 4.0", so how honestly is that helpful if its going to be removed?
Then on top of that, all that Fleet Cp coding replaces one line of code:
- Code: Select all
maxBuildableNumber =
- Code: Select all
Fleetcap Configuration Files (removed in FO4.0)
Command (and example)
Description
fleetCapClassX = ""
example: fleetcapclassX = "kli_bortasr2"
This indicates that when a ship with this ODF name attempts to use this fleetcap, it should count.
fleetCapClassXcapValue = X
example: fleetcapclassXcapvalue = 4
If present, this indicates that the ship listed takes more than one slot out of the cap. If negative, it increases the cap by the amount indicated by the negative value.
maxCap = 3
This is the maximum number of ships you can have of this cap.
simpleCapMode = 1
This means that any ship that says it uses this cap can only be built the specified number of times.
capTooltip = "( %d / %d )"
example: capTooltip = "Collective Features ( %d / %d )"
This is the text attached to the appropriate ships' tooltips to indicate the max cap and the currently used cap. the first "%d" in the string is replaced with the used amount of cap and the second "%d" is replaced with the maximum cap.
capTooltipReached = "Already Researched"
This is the tooltip used when you hover over a buildbutton of a ship whose cap is full.
capTooltipOver
affectsAI If 0, the fleetcap does not restrict the AI
countconstructions = 1 If the unit is in the build queue then it would be counted toward the fleet cap if set to 0 then it's not
Like I've said before after finding and bookmarking that page sometime ago was I don't understand all that coding, why there is so much extra code and if its all relevant?
With the setup to FleetOps ODF files to stock ODF files, FleetOps ODF files are confusing.
It's not a simple modification as its called in this quote from this page: //www.fleetops.net/info/about
The project's goal was not only to create a simple "modification", but to design a total conversion to make Armada II a worthy successor to the second best-selling Star Trek game, Star Trek: Armada (behind Interplay's Star Trek: 25th Anniversary by a small, but fair margin)
Simple was stock A2, they kept their ODF files simple to support modding and set it up with // before coding telling you what it did/does. That made modding for me easy and understandable. Really wish FleetOps like that, no offense but the guide is confusing at times.
posted on March 2nd, 2013, 11:34 pm
posted on March 3rd, 2013, 5:38 am
posted on March 3rd, 2013, 6:45 am
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