STXII 2012 script is coming to gather.

[Tok`ra]

posted on March 9th, 2011, 2:27 am

Last edited by Tok`ra on March 9th, 2011, 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

if you actually watch Star Trek XI, you notice that it has far less weapons fire than Nemesis or even Insurrection.

Yeah, cause its not like they take place a century apart or anything.

there is an explanation of what Red Matter is, it is just not in the movie. It is an incredibley dense material that can collapse on itself to create a gravity well.

OH ITS OK TEACHER I DID MY HOMEWORK, I JUST DIDNT BRING IT TO SCHOOL!

Also, the whole reasoning behind that makes no sense.

If it were dense enough to form a black hole when it combines with other matter (at least what it looked like in the movie) then even the small drop nero extracts for Vulcan would be so freaking heavy they couldnt manualy handle it.

That and the whole container of it on the Jellyfish would create a black hole so big that Earth still dies.

Of course that also ignores the whole 'eject the warp core to go fast enough to escape a black hole, ignoring the fact that if we go to warp we can easily escape its event horizon' factor, too.

posted on March 9th, 2011, 11:42 am

Yeah, JJ is really just made the movie in the spirit of other movies out there right now which are mostly all like that. Super inflated, semi-invincible bad guys out for revenge or world domination, etc. with physically attractive heroes that lack much depth. It's really very much like old American superhero comics. Then add in flashy, shiny ships and guns with lost of lens flare to cover up the fact that it looks like crap and you're golden.
It doesn't look like Abrams knows the difference between a phaser and a disruptor; especially in the 23rd century. I mean come on, Starfleet doesn't develop pulse phaser technology until the late 24th century. Why? Simple: phaser pulses are harder to generate and control than a continuous beam. Even if it is a different reality, there's no reason the Federation would have developed pulse technology sooner.
Yeah. That's as bad as the Infinite Space people making the Defiant sound like a TIE fighter or something.

Unless you are fully up to date with all Star Trek cannon you should never make a statement like that, Pulse technology has been around since TOS and in TWOK

As someone else pointed out they used Pulse Phasers almost as area of effect weapons in balance of Terror.

Like I said before if you go through Star Trek 2009 it's all pretty respectful of the cannon, People just jumped out and hated on it straight away cause it's not like Old Trek.

Like I said though OLD TREK IS DEAD.

You gotta embrace the new stuff and just enjoy it, otherwise your just gonna miss out for no really good reason.


Oh btw on Red Matter :

Yes the idea of Red Matter is silly, let's be fair it looks like paint that can create a black hole.

However how many equally ridiculous this have we seen in Trek before?

TOS : Slingshot around a sun to achieve Time Warp. Then use it again to make the main plot line for ST : IV based on an alien probe that talks to Whales !

TNG : I love TNG, but how many times did the Holodeck " malfunction " just to create a plot line.

DS9 : One word, Multidimensional transporter device.

Voy : Well apart from the Warp 10 fiasco, I don't even know where to begin. There are so many issues with voyager that if you nitpick you could easily write a 10,000 word essay.

Ent : Again where to begin, Temporal cold war / Klingon foreheads there's a lot to cover.

Just go with it, you've done it before just watch the show to enjoy it.

posted on March 9th, 2011, 4:48 pm

TOS : Slingshot around a sun to achieve Time Warp. Then use it again to make the main plot line for ST : IV based on an alien probe that talks to Whales !

I wouldn't put than on the same level as anything from this movie, at least it was consistent.

TNG : I love TNG, but how many times did the Holodeck " malfunction " just to create a plot line.

Perfectly valid way to start a plot, especially compared to an interdimentional time tavel black hole that started the movie plot.

Klingon foreheads there's a lot to cover.

Only ridiculouas from the DNA perspective, otherwise nothing strange.

posted on March 10th, 2011, 5:27 am

What really annoys me are the people who are stuck in their ways and uses canon as an excuse for not accepting new ideas.

Star Trek was based on the concept of accepting new ideas and I think the last film actually brought Trek back to it's roots. The Trek fan-base has gone downhill in the last 15 years starting with Voyager in the mid to late 90's, followed by Ent and now Star Trek 11. A Trek fan is a trek fan, you really need to at least appreciate Trek for what it is, exploring the unknown and bringing in new ideas.

What they did in Trek 11 was great, done in a clear and interesting way and I hope to see more of it in the future. 

posted on March 11th, 2011, 7:12 pm

^This.

As has been mentioned many times before this HAD to happen if it was going to compete with current scifi and current action movies in general. They did it in the best most respectful way possible. Obviously this new alternate timeline is just as canon(or real as some have put it) as the prime and terran empire timelines and many others that we know continued after an episode ended. What we know of prime trek(and Gene's vision) is all still there its just wearing a new suit.

Statisically ST09 was the best of the eleven by far.

posted on March 12th, 2011, 10:00 am

What really annoys me are the people who are stuck in their ways and uses canon as an excuse for not accepting new ideas.

get me new ideas that are not steaming from having had JarJar Abrams just squat over them then.

Star Trek was based on the concept of accepting new ideas and I think the last film actually brought Trek back to it's roots. The Trek fan-base has gone downhill in the last 15 years starting with Voyager in the mid to late 90's, followed by Ent and now Star Trek 11. A Trek fan is a trek fan, you really need to at least appreciate Trek for what it is, exploring the unknown and bringing in new ideas.

Of course it's gone downhill, the crapier it gets the fewer people watch.


And new ideas is one thing. re-writing whole plots is another entirely.

Actually, I think that that reboot that was pitched to paramount by the Babylon5 creator was exellent, but it would have been an out and out rebioot, not a 'lol time travel we start over and dont contridict lol'.

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posted on March 12th, 2011, 11:56 am

Of course it's gone downhill, the crapier it gets the fewer people watch.

No it's because fans have become selfish who expect everything their way, and if it's not what they expect many jump on the web and start trashing it.

Actually, I think that that reboot that was pitched to paramount by the Babylon5 creator was exellent, but it would have been an out and out rebioot, not a 'lol time travel we start over and dont contridict lol'.

JMS is a great writer, B5 is one of the best series ever to hit the small screen. I agree that if JMS got into the Trek team and had the freedom to mold Trek to this own vision that it would be a fantastic movie/series.

posted on March 12th, 2011, 6:26 pm

Actually, I think that that reboot that was pitched to paramount by the Babylon5 creator was exellent, but it would have been an out and out rebioot, not a 'lol time travel we start over and dont contridict lol'.

If what you attached was the pitch, it's not bad. Although they still kind of wanted to pull the new universe bull, which I don't really like. But this might have turned out decent if done right.

posted on March 13th, 2011, 11:39 pm

With that movie they renewed an over 40year old series and did a good job. However, the problem of the Star Trek timeline is that it basically stands still since Insurrection. In Voy we got only little to know about what's happening to the Federation(the pathfinder episodes were great, though), in Nemesis it seemed as if the alliance with the Romulans and the reunification efforts had never been there and in ST 11 - well we got the comic that tells us sth. about what's going on(btw. the comic is great and does a plausible connection to canon that's why I'm not opposed to ST11)
What I want to say is: I don't want to know what happened to earth before the Federation was there(at least I don't need a series about it, Data may give me an essay), I don't want to see Kirk again, because I did it already - I want to see what's going on after they beat the Dominion, what's going on with Martok as chancellor of the Klingon empire?
Star Trek has left us with an enormous amount of stories, that could be taken and led further - but what do they do? They return to the very beginning... You don't have to tell the story again, it is already there but it's incomplete(and of course it will always be incomplete, that's a whole galaxy we are talking about...)

posted on March 14th, 2011, 12:15 am

If what you attached was the pitch, it's not bad. Although they still kind of wanted to pull the new universe bull, which I don't really like. But this might have turned out decent if done right.

Yeah, that was it.

I agree a new universe would have been a sorta second best option, but at the same time if THAT guy had done it, it would have likely been a good story if nothing else.

Hope, I agree with you, they had SO much room to expand on what they had allready done, however they could have easily gone back in time and still done good, afterall Kirk wasnt the only captain of his era....

[Tyler]

posted on March 14th, 2011, 12:25 am

Last edited by Tyler on March 14th, 2011, 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

If they wanted a story in the past, they could have done one about Garth of Izar chronicling his descent into madness.

posted on March 14th, 2011, 10:05 am

what's going on with Martok as chancellor of the Klingon empire?

i bet he's pissed off at worf for saying:

"i'll be your ambassador and we can spend long nights walking along the beach.....hunting, you know, beach targs  "

but then by the next tng movie (nemesis) he was back on the enterprise in starfleet uniform and shooting teh LAZOR spam again.

posted on March 14th, 2011, 11:49 am

I don't have much of a problem accepting red matter as a possible substance. Think about anti-matter; as soon as it comes in to contact with normal matter it annihilates. That's a weird concept but we readily accept it now. I'm going to use the Higg's boson as an example now even though it is unlikely to be anything like this:
When red matter contacts normal matter it may create exotic particles like Higg's bosons. These may cause gravity to become much stronger, similar to the strength of electromagnetic forces or the such. Gravity is understood in some theories to be reduced in strength (relative to the other fundamental forces) because it is shared among higher dimensions that are 'folded up' very tightly; perhaps the Higg's boson could 'unfold' gravity in the region that they exist.
This could explain its ability to create a black hole. All the matter of the planet Vulcan would crush in upon itself.
Reasonable?

posted on March 14th, 2011, 3:09 pm

but then by the next tng movie (nemesis) he was back on the enterprise in starfleet uniform and shooting teh LAZOR spam again.

Worf didn't actually leave Starfleet though, unless I'm mistaken. In Nemesis though, wasn't Worf just there for the purposes of travelling to Betazed? Picard probably just had him on tactical to keep him busy.

I don't have much of a problem accepting red matter as a possible substance. Think about anti-matter; as soon as it comes in to contact with normal matter it annihilates. That's a weird concept but we readily accept it now. I'm going to use the Higg's boson as an example now even though it is unlikely to be anything like this:
When red matter contacts normal matter it may create exotic particles like Higg's bosons. These may cause gravity to become much stronger, similar to the strength of electromagnetic forces or the such. Gravity is understood in some theories to be reduced in strength (relative to the other fundamental forces) because it is shared among higher dimensions that are 'folded up' very tightly; perhaps the Higg's boson could 'unfold' gravity in the region that they exist.
This could explain its ability to create a black hole. All the matter of the planet Vulcan would crush in upon itself.
Reasonable?

Maybe, but contact with regular matter isn't even the trigger, as I recall, it's combustion.

posted on March 14th, 2011, 4:49 pm

Worf didn't actually leave Starfleet though, unless I'm mistaken. In Nemesis though, wasn't Worf just there for the purposes of travelling to Betazed? Picard probably just had him on tactical to keep him busy.

about leaving starfleet: it was never mentioned explicitly. In ds9 finale worf was gonna be martok's ambassador. If that means he is the klink ambas to feds then its doubtful a high ranking of the klingon govt/military (hey, the military might be responsible for klink diplomacy lol) could retain position in the fed military. If it means he is the fed ambas to klinks (like his dead ex kehlhr (sp)) then its doubtful he would remain in the military, as kehlhr wasnt starfleet, and it would be improper (in real life anyway) to have an ambassador be a member of the military.

By nemesis he was clearly still in starfleet, as he wore uniform. Maybe he never took his place as an ambas, i just wish they had written a line explaining it away.

In fc they had a kinda plausible reason to have worf there, sisko wasnt allowed to fight the borg because his wife got killed by them, same reason they tried to keep picard away. doesnt explain why there was no dax/bashir etc there. Obrien could have at least got a few lines, he was on the ent d too lol.

In insurrection they had a line explaining how worf was helping some fed allies install planetary defs and the ent was luckily nearby to give him a lift, but it was a background line.

By nemesis they just ignored the fact that they forced worf into ds9 and basically said: 'he's here, deal with it' to the fans.

Each film the explanation got weaker. I think it was a mistake to shoehorn him into ds9 in the first place.