Stupidest Starfleet crews ever

posted on February 13th, 2009, 10:13 am

There is only one thing with Wofl 359 that could be even remotely called stupid.  Which is picking a battlefield against an unknown foe that lacked any and all emplaced weapons systems.  A starbase can shoot more torps, and mount heavier phasers than any ship short of a cube.

Of course, most starbases will crumple before a fleet that size.  It was Borg Shields and the fact that you have to destroy over 78% of it to take off functionality.  Oh, and adaptive weapons ignoring shields.  Remember, modulating shields and rotating phaser frequency only bought them a few seconds before the borg adapted.  The ship at 359 had no prayer, and even if they wanted to run, the Borg are big fans of tractor beams, and cutting off nacelles.

Plus, there was that whole 'If we fail, Earth is probably toast.  So, fight to the death it is, and pray that makes a difference.'

posted on February 13th, 2009, 4:37 pm

um....the simple fact that the Enterprise-D's weapons had no effect on the Cube should have been enough to realize that the Fleets attack would be ineffective...that plus the Borg assimilating Captain Picard and with him the knowledge of Starfleets Tactics and offensive and defensive capabilities...

The Galaxy class peace time or otherwise use Type 10 Phasers....with the new warp core like what the EnterpriseD got in Phantasms probably increased phaser power.

And since the Lakota is a reuse of the Enterprise-B model..there are 27 Phaser banks on the Excelsior refit.... 13 on the dorsal side of the ship..and 14 on the ventral side. Check ExAstris Scientia for photos
I'd say roughly Type 9 or equivalent for banks...she probably only carried quantum torpedos also..since no torpedos were fired by the Lakota the entire battle...

posted on February 13th, 2009, 8:26 pm

um....the simple fact that the Enterprise-D's weapons had no effect on the Cube should have been enough to realize that the Fleets attack would be ineffective...

Not necessarily. ONE ship might not be able to do much, but a load of ships firing from different angles etc could have overloaded it. It didn't work, but it was a theory they hadn't been able to rule out at that point.

she probably only carried quantum torpedos also..since no torpedos were fired by the Lakota the entire battle...

If it didn't fire any torpedoes, how can you say "probably" anything?...

posted on February 14th, 2009, 8:32 am

Well, I was calling them stupid because....by the point the first few ships had gone down I would have ordered my ship into retreat, heck if they chased me it'd hold them far longer than the actual battle did.

posted on February 14th, 2009, 3:49 pm

And since the Lakota is a reuse of the Enterprise-B model..there are 27 Phaser banks on the Excelsior refit.... 13 on the dorsal side of the ship..and 14 on the ventral side. Check ExAstris Scientia for photos
I'd say roughly Type 9 or equivalent for banks...she probably only carried quantum torpedos also..since no torpedos were fired by the Lakota the entire battle...

The Excelsiors had 5 Phaser points on the top saucer and 5 on the bottom, if they were double weapons (which I have not seen shown on any series) a normal one would have 20 in total, Lakota about 24.

With Type-9's, how would the Lakota damage a Defiant? Defiants tend to avoid torpedoes much more often than phasers, so much of the damage would have been from phasers. If attacked with Type-9's, Worf would have laughed himself into a coma.

posted on February 14th, 2009, 4:31 pm

What's next? Defiant was affected by a Breen Energy Dampner, so Sisko and the crew were stupid?

Reading this thread, you'd think Starfleet trained their crews to be stupid.

yes, and they probably do, just to give real captains like Picard more glory/work

posted on February 14th, 2009, 5:11 pm

You have an interesting concept of stupidity.

Here's one; If you hit someone, are they stupid because they feel it?

posted on February 14th, 2009, 5:18 pm

With Type-9's, how would the Lakota damage a Defiant? Defiants tend to avoid torpedoes much more often than phasers, so much of the damage would have been from phasers. If attacked with Type-9's, Worf would have laughed himself into a coma.

I think you (not just you personally but all the participants in this phaser type discussion)
are taking these designations way too serious.

Phaser - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

Here, all these different types are listed and its made clear that the only sources for these phaser types and what ships they belong to are different technical manuals, that (as shown in many other cases such as shipscales) contradict eachother anyway.

As it says at the end of the page "None of these type designations have been mentioned on screen."

If one takes all these manuals and background info as canon evidence, then a saber or a soyuz(!) are armed with type 10 phasers and the akira has 15 torpedo tubes (2 on memory alpha, but 15 is actually a number that has been stated by a star trek official)...
None of these sources gives any clue about the actual difference in firepower between two types, so even if one believes them, one can merely guess how large the difference between an excelsior with type 8, 9 or 10 would be.

posted on February 14th, 2009, 5:38 pm

That's where I've been going wrong, I use Memory Alpha, but only the individual ship/class entries. I didn't think to use the weapons page, too.

posted on February 18th, 2009, 11:11 pm

One other thing, no matter how many phaser arrays, banks or whatever a ship has, it still needs energy to fire them. And the phaser shots have to hit the target 

So, if i build a ship, let´s call it the U.S.S. Omnipotence that has 2000 phaser arrays, it still says nothing about how many of those phasers i can fire at once and for how long. It just tells me about firing arcs 

posted on February 18th, 2009, 11:34 pm

And that, my friends, is the reason the galaxy class is so awesome, even without quantum torpedoes. It was designed with a much higher capacity to generate power.

Picard: Mr Worf?
Worf: WHAT!!!??
Picard: Fire phasers.
Worf: Aye sir.

posted on February 19th, 2009, 8:57 am

Yeah, and with a much higher capacity to get hit, it reminds me of a dart game err whatever.

And the Galaxy makes sure, a maximum of casulties is assured, by keeping a lot of innocent civilians around 

posted on February 19th, 2009, 2:02 pm

Yea, the crew of Galaxy's are around 5/6's civilian, explaining why the crew complement is so low in the FO Version.

posted on February 21st, 2009, 6:48 pm

5/6 civies? get real man. The civies on board are the families of the officers that have served for several years in Starfleet. And those are not that many. What you guys don't take into account is that a large ship like the Galaxy needs a high crew compliment. Why? Because people are not borg, they can't work 24/7 you know. That's why they work in shifts In Chain of command we hear that the Ent-D had a 3 shift rotation

posted on February 21st, 2009, 6:50 pm

As far as I know, a Galaxy has about 2-300 civilians on average. That makes the stock Galaxy's crew closer to the actual Starfleet compliment.