"Ambassador Class"

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on November 20th, 2010, 8:54 pm

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on November 20th, 2010, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What i most hated about Yesterday's Enterprise was the fact that the Ambassador Class itself was nothing more than an old Federation ship which was all but used up, no history no nothing, so i thought that i will day by day offer different facts.

Actually I think the Enterprise-C was treated with all due respect in that episode. It was badly damaged and almost disabled when it appeared and both crews did all they could to make it combat-ready in a short amount of time. Also you should keep in mind that Star Trek on TV isn't much about the ships so the episode's focus was on Tasha and Picard in the front as well as on Guinan and Lt. Castillo as supporting characters. The story-telling in Star Trek always comes from the characters, never from the ships (if ever, ships only support the story-telling).

posted on November 20th, 2010, 11:13 pm

Let me clear myself up here, the first time i even heard of the Ambasador Class was in Yesterday's Enterprise, till then i never even heard of this ship, unlike the Miranda Class Excelsior, and yes the Galaxy Class. Yes we knew it was a Federation Starship, and it was from the past, and it was engageing Romulam Warbird's, but from there how much was mentioned of her from there? Ihope this clears any confusion. 

posted on November 20th, 2010, 11:17 pm

How much do you hear about the Niagara, Freedom, New Orleans, Phoenix-style Nebula or quite a few other Federation ships? Every ship needs a first showing, a ship cannot appear before its first appearence.

We know and saw more about it than most other ships, which were often one-scene wonders.

posted on November 20th, 2010, 11:20 pm

Your point well taken, i guess i wonder why a ship after the Excelsior Class was just basiclly ignored.

posted on November 20th, 2010, 11:25 pm

Indeed, they were in service until at least 2367, as there was at least 1 at Wolf 359. Plus we see a shot of Riker and La Forge in 'Redemption' that, judging by the consoles shown, implies that the Ambassador was upgraded to the latest Federation tech which, as Tyler said, is a lot more than we got for other classes of ship.

posted on November 21st, 2010, 5:57 am

Why would Starfleet commission the Excalibur 2 if the original Excalibur was still in service? 

USS Excalibur (NCC-1664), Connie class, wrecked with all hands lost during wargames (TOS: The Ultimate Computer).

USS Excalibur II: Only refrenced in some of the old FASA RPG sourcebooks

USS Excalibur: Excelcior class. Only (far as I can remember) mentioned in some of the TNG RPG sourcebooks, it was mothballed in the late 2290s, and had a registry of 2003 or 2004, suggesting it was one of the first few of its class, explaining why it was mothballed when so many other excelciors existed for longer.

USS Excalibur (NCC-26517) Ambasador class. Novels mention it as early as 2333. The ship also was seen on TV (TNG: Redemption) with Riker breifly in the center seat, since the ship had been pulled out of an extenseve refit, and had no crew. A Voyager episode later on would hint at the reason being that it had fought a borg scout, and had a few crew assimd, but it survived. In ST: First contact, the captain (and a lot of the crew) were killed in yet another cube fight, but the ship survived yet again. In 2376, an enemy computer virus that had been placed months prior to the event when the vessel was boardedduring combat managed to destroy the ship, all hands excaped.


USS Excalibur (NCC-26517-A). The last captain of the ambasador class excalibur commanded this one, likley a venture refit.

It's been refrenced in new frontier novels (it would have to be as the series is based on this ship), TNG Novels, and DS9 novels, and the ambasador class one was seen in TNG, and refrenced in Voyager.

Let me clear myself up here, the first time i even heard of the Ambasador Class was in Yesterday's Enterprise, till then i never even heard of this ship, unlike the Miranda Class Excelsior, and yes the Galaxy Class. Yes we knew it was a Federation Starship, and it was from the past, and it was engageing Romulam Warbird's, but from there how much was mentioned of her from there? Ihope this clears any confusion. 

You obviously never paid much attention to Picards ready room I take it :p .

Indeed, they were in service until at least 2367, as there was at least 1 at Wolf 359. Plus we see a shot of Riker and La Forge in 'Redemption' that, judging by the consoles shown, implies that the Ambassador was upgraded to the latest Federation tech which, as Tyler said, is a lot more than we got for other classes of ship.

That was the Excalibur. Based on what was said in a Voyager episode that mentiond it, it had fought the borg, had a few crew assimd, but the engagement ended before either vessel was destroyed, then while it was being refit and repaired, the crew were reassigned, and Riker/LaForge go there during the TNG episode in question.

posted on November 21st, 2010, 4:55 pm

Your point well taken, i guess i wonder why a ship after the Excelsior Class was just basiclly ignored.

It wasn't basically ignored, it was just not seen as often as the Excelsior class for example. If you wanna see a ship that has basically been ignored, it would be something like the Yeager-type seen around DS9 in some of the later episodes. It wasn't mentioned or explained in any way, it was just flying there. Noone on the show talked about it. The Ambassador was at least mentioned, people on the shows were sometimes aboard such vessels and we had examplary stories of ships out of that class, and the Enterprise-C was the most telling one. If they hadn't a collapsing subspace-rift and klingon vessels right next to them they actually would have had some time to talk about the Ambassador-class and Rachel Garetts former assignments.

posted on November 21st, 2010, 6:42 pm

Agreed, the ambasador was for it's time what the galaxy later became, a big explorer that almost but wasnt quite a battleship. As for the ones seen with TMP pannels and the one with TNG era pannels, thats just ones that were due to a refit.

Combat wise, an ambasador (an upgraded one anyway) shouldnt be that far behind the galaxy.

[Tyler]

posted on November 21st, 2010, 6:51 pm

Last edited by Tyler on November 21st, 2010, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In terms of firepower, how far behind a Battleship would a Heavy Cruiser actually be? Both would be combat capable and pretty heavy in the weapons department.

It would probably take several upgrades to be similar to the early Galaxy.

posted on November 21st, 2010, 10:12 pm

It would probably take several upgrades to be similar to the early Galaxy.

Agreed. An ambasador class would basicly stay a few steps behind the galaxy class.

[navyguy]

posted on November 22nd, 2010, 5:48 am

Last edited by navyguy on November 22nd, 2010, 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

During World War 2 Americian heavy cruiser, carried 8" gun's compared to a (BB) BATTLEWAGON 12"smallest, the largest was 16". Ambassador Class, to me was a battleship in her time, at one time she was the pride of StarFleet. She was more than a heavy cruiser she was in her time a capital ship, anyway's a heavy cruiser doesnt have the armor belt a battleship does, nor the range to pierce, a battleship's heavy armor, it may get in close but the round's wouldnt go through the thick steel. Iowa Class ship's could fire 25 miles, and a shell that weighs 1 ton by the time a heavy cruiser came within range its all over, today's cruiser's that's a different story, but assumeing were talking the past a heavy cruiser and its 8" shell's would fire about 12miles. So the Excalibur was at First Contact, interesting.

posted on November 22nd, 2010, 4:06 pm

This article gives a good overview of the differences between cruisers and battleships.
Battlecruisers Of World War II

In general the armor/speed is the deciding factor in which category it is placed.

[quaddmgtech]

posted on November 22nd, 2010, 5:49 pm

Last edited by quaddmgtech on November 22nd, 2010, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@ NavyGuy:

First, let me begin by saying that I still do not understand why comparisons are being drawn between Star-ships and Archaic Naval Battle vessels. Star-ships are more than just sea battle-ships launched into space and outfitted with warp-drives instead of steam engines...

Secondly, I understand that you are an Ambassador supporter. I too am a fan of the Ambassador, but I am also a fan of the Excelsior class. And let me just say that the reason so many Excelsiors are still in service as opposed to Ambassadors is probably mostly a result of the fact that so many more Excelsiors were produced. It's the same reasoning as to why you see so many Toyota's on the road. They may not be superior to other auto-mobiles but they get the job done, reliably and cost effectively so we see a lot of them produced... for many years.


Edit: Never thought I would be comparing my favorite star-ship to an economy car. 

posted on November 22nd, 2010, 6:05 pm

lol in their day excels were the largest ships, the capital ships. Just like the ambas was, then the galaxy, then the sovvie.

posted on November 22nd, 2010, 6:23 pm

lol in their day excels were the largest ships, the capital ships. Just like the ambas was, then the galaxy, then the sovvie.

Exactly, it's only logical.

Just look at the Enterprise mode line-up:

Ent B. Excelsior.
Ent C. Ambassador
Ent D. Galaxy.
Ent E. Sovereign.
Ent J. Fugly.