No Mayson phaser from the second round of the tourney?!

posted on November 18th, 2010, 6:23 am

Lol Elim.  Let me paraphrase the video for you.

"Mayson sucks because my opponent chose a vessel that gets hard countered by both the vessels I built and by the vessels I got by lucky draw, which I usually get at least one of anyway.  QED."

This is not a good defense.  In fact, early leahvals perform much better as they hard counter intrepids, do well against monsoons, and basically trash all the warp ins by way of the passives.  It's balanced because you can't keep building leahvals forever, but in the early game against the federation, they do quite well.

It's no secret that the turrets themselves are super cheap and super strong, and that this causes problems.  But I'm saying that you need to provide better evidence than this and be more rigorous in any tests you use to demonstrate.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 6:26 am

Yup sadly the video doesn't really help the case .


    Rommies do have a tough time against Feddies just because they rely so much on being able to harass their opponents.  Part of their difficulty comes from the fact that a single Mayson phaser turret can deter an harassment for a major portion of the game.


  That's a bit harder to show in a video though .

posted on November 18th, 2010, 7:00 am

Romies can shut those turrets down with supports if they need to, long enough to harass some miners and get out.  I mean, if you're going up against something lame like a super powered turret, you might as well use a super lame support vessel in response with its plasma bolt and shield recharge.

[Elim]

posted on November 18th, 2010, 7:01 am

Last edited by Elim on November 18th, 2010, 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lol Elim.  Let me paraphrase the video for you.

"Mayson sucks because my opponent chose a vessel that gets hard countered by both the vessels I built and by the vessels I got by lucky draw, which I usually get at least one of anyway.  QED."

This is not a good defense.  In fact, early leahvals perform much better as they hard counter intrepids, do well against monsoons, and basically trash all the warp ins by way of the passives.  It's balanced because you can't keep building leahvals forever, but in the early game against the federation, they do quite well.

It's no secret that the turrets themselves are super cheap and super strong, and that this causes problems.  But I'm saying that you need to provide better evidence than this and be more rigorous in any tests you use to demonstrate.

That was a direct answer to Kestrel's post. Don't worry, more replays on the way, just takes hours to  record-encode-upload.  :D (takes 3 seconds to confute with words in a forum post  :blush: )

Mod:

Romies can shut those turrets down with supports if they need to, long enough to harass some miners and get out.  I mean, if you're going up against something lame like a super powered turret, you might as well use a super lame support vessel in response with its plasma bolt and shield recharge.

Next video will show exactly how that fails. (executed by a "noob" called Mort ) ~1,5hour to finish the upload.  Also, if I need to do a replay about everything you come up guys, I will! 

posted on November 18th, 2010, 7:37 am

That was a direct answer to Kestrel's post. Don't worry, more replays on the way, just takes hours to  record-encode-upload.

Don't I know it.   It's cool if it was a response to someone's post, but the refutation stands because it's a clear case of being hard countered, and there's zero ambiguity on that.  I look forward to more replays on this.

[Elim]

posted on November 18th, 2010, 10:48 am

Last edited by Elim on November 18th, 2010, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry for no game sound, I completely forgot about that. Ususally I'm listening to music, or just keeping the game sound low to be able to hear on teamspeak: Sütee farting and burping, Clints's children killing each other, Butter's yelling on me: -Elim don't do "put various gameplay mistake here" this!!!  - just kidding    Also not a lot of commentary, it's pretty hard to beat Mort and commentate in the same time, but as you can see, Mayson can do that! 
(sorry for the crappy graphics too, still running on a backup gpu)

   YouTube
       - mayson2-1.wmv
 
   YouTube
       - mayson2-2.wmv
 
   YouTube
       - mayson2-3.wmv
 

posted on November 18th, 2010, 12:39 pm

Turrets? Whats so nice to have them?

You want to take out enemy mining and there is a turret nearby. So, just get in there with long range units and attack from the other side. The mining is in your range, the turret not. Only if you build two turrets on each side of the mining, you can say, that it is somewhat defended. But still, I thing a turret is a sitting duck.

The answer to them is arty. Raid the enemy mining with long range units, if the task force wants to repel you, you can stand in the line what is possible, if the enemy build turrets instead of ships and go on and kill off his mining.

I dont see a real balance problem here.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 12:41 pm

Well this replay also does not serve very well to show the specific advantage through turrets...however it shows how powerful Mayson in its overall use is. Cheap and strong ships, easy to retreat and turrets for threatening opponents. And Elim did not even use a special strategy...just the usual building. He did not attack the base miners with 3-5 Intrepids/Monsoons which would have hit Mort quite hard...since Spectres are slow.

I dont see a real balance problem here.

Sorry, but then you must be blind at all...
Or your opponents in MP games are nubies that don't know what to do.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 3:45 pm

   YouTube
       - Mayson vs Helev (1).wmv
 

This is about the phaser turrent , you beat me early with a quick warp which was very rare 2 ambasador if you got 2 excell your warp would have been easyly beaten. But the advatage of warp isnt what this was about.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 4:18 pm

This is about the phaser turrent , you beat me early with a quick warp which was very rare 2 ambasador if you got 2 excell your warp would have been easyly beaten. But the advatage of warp isnt what this was about.

Okay so, if it were a tourney game, you would just say: Oh, yeah Elim you played awesome in that game, really deserved to win! - ?  - and get happily kicked out in the first round because of a lucky warpin? 

posted on November 18th, 2010, 11:39 pm

(sorry for the double post)

Moar nastyness:
YouTube
- mayson vs klings1.wmv

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on November 18th, 2010, 11:42 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on November 18th, 2010, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So then why arbitrarily argue about it, Funny?

Argue..? I simply said that, in my opinion, if I am indeed in-titled to one, I don't think that the mayson phaser turret should be banned from the tournament for a number of reasons. I am not arguing with you, infact I was showing that I respect your opinion as I too have had to face a lot of people with similar tactics. I know I might seem a bit arbitrary, but I was trying to convey to you that you shouldn't emerge out of these situations as a victim, but instead learn from each challenge and emerge as the victor. After-all the tournament isn't necessarily about wining, but really about learning from each and every game and becoming a better player as a result. Not every situation is gonna be easy, so why don't you welcome these kinds of challenges?

When you chimed in the first time it wasn't on the stance of "Well the tourney started this way, might as well finish it this way".  It was on the stance of "it's not that bad, the phaser turrets can be beaten".

  ....


  If you sympathize, why argue about it when you're not even in the tournament?  It's not about people "stooping" to some level, it's because some people in this tourney are less experienced and Mayson is a crutch .  Why not use it if you can?  Again, try being in the tournament and realizing that you've basically got no chance.

Actually, there are many things you can do to stop turreting Feds, as I said in my first post. Here are some more examples:

1. Build an Auto-Assimilator, and assimilate all your enemies ships and mining.

2. K'tinga rush your opponent, to stop him from expanding and keep him trapped inside his base. Any ships you come across should be easy pickings. Meanwhile, just expand all around him out-resource him.

3. Spam Rheinns and use range against your enemy.

4. As Dominion, you're probably screwed anyway, so why don't you spam S2s.

So please Boggz, I would appreciate it if you didn't get so angry with me, and realize that I have a slightly different opinion than you on this, and let it be.  :thumbsup:

Also, I was a finalist in the last tournament and lost to Mayson turrets, so its not like I have don't have a clue on what kind of odds you are facing.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 11:50 pm

Boggz isn't angry, silly . 

    If you'd like me to go through your suggestions here of "just do this against Mayson turrets" one by one I will.  It's not quite that easy though to handle turrets by "just doing this or that".

  Again, I didn't mean it to seem like I didn't respect your opinion, Funny.  .  Just want it to be clear to even those not playing in the tournament that this is an issue that is actually confronting people playing Flops competitively now .

posted on November 19th, 2010, 12:10 am

Alright glad to hear that

posted on November 19th, 2010, 12:20 am

Hahah sure .

  By the way how come you weren't in the tourney this time?