No Mayson phaser from the second round of the tourney?!

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 2:09 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have some fear in me starting this thread, but "let slip the dogs of war!"  (I really hope that the ppl who said they will support me in this, will not just disappear and let me become piecemealed by the mayson fans) 

So, the recent common experience in the tournament, shows that the intepid/monsoon+warpin+e2 combination backed up with the infamous phaser turret is may be too much to handle. Observed lot of games,  we also ran numerous test (with klingons, dominion, romulans) outside of the tourney. I don't say we tried everything but it really feels like that anybody who pulls this out, has a too significant advantage.
I't looks like that the Mayson player can easily  defend aginst  multi directional attacks, or even aginst fully concentrated attacks with the help of the phaser turrets.

This is my opinion: The general problem that he can easily hang in the game with suffering huge mining losses and also some combat ship losses, and reach a critical unstoppable mass when the game reaches the 18-25 minute mark(practically when the warpin solts got filled). Really feels like that the other factions can't do anything about it.

One more insane example: Last night, friendly test game, Boggz(martok) vs Clintsat(mayson).
3 sangs were poking an unupgraded platform, it had 11% shields left when Clint upgraded it, (so the sangs didn't suffered any damage til the upgrade) BUT, it was enough to completely scare off the sangs, Boggz tried to micro them to minimize the damage, but phew-phew the sangs instantly lost shields, and the phaser turret was still on about 7-8%....  Is this ok?

One more thing: the problem seems to be non-map specific. On the old duel with the scattered (and less )expansions seemd to favor this strat even more.

So there is the rule: No Mayson phaser turret from the second round of the tournament, if you are in love with the high defense Antares yard ships, you can play Mayson, just keep in mind: No phaser turret.

Now, you can kill me! 

posted on November 16th, 2010, 3:11 pm

lol arbitrary rules for the tourney wont go down well, kinda seems like changing the rules will invalidate earlier results.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 3:20 pm

yep, I don't think chaning house-rules in the middle of a tournament would be a wise choice

posted on November 16th, 2010, 3:27 pm

It also opens up the door for other people starting to make their own house rules which will take away from the goal of the tourni I believe

posted on November 16th, 2010, 3:38 pm

so what do we learn? Quick balance updates to fix obvious problems like the Phaser bug or the B8 bug might be worth...

And somehow I expected this to happen...one reason why I did not participate in the tournament.

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 3:49 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Absolutely true, it might end with a horribly pointless and agressive argument, with no real winners, no real benefits. But you know what, after what I have seen,don't care this time. Don't wanna have the rest of the fun ruined. 100% of the really experienced tourney players will agree with me, and thats what I only care about at the moment. Must of us already agreed, if anybody plays mayson aginst us, that practically forces to do the same thing, and I guess that would be boring like hell.
The only thing that can change my mind if the critical mass of tourney players disagree with this decision.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 4:04 pm

Hello,

first fo all: i am a fan of Mayson and i want to play him again if i get to the second round...!

But i totally agree with you, Elim! This turret is a beast!

I have no problem with such a regulation and I would appreciate such a small change in the tourney rules!
But after this no one should say: "I lost vs. the overpowered Mayson feds..."

On the other hand Myles, Dominus and Optec are right too!!!

So, my question: Did you already decide to change the rules or is this thread about the question like "What do you think: Should we change the rules???"

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 4:09 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hello,

first fo all: i am a fan of Mayson and i want to play him again if i get to the second round...!

But i totally agree with you, Elim! This turret is a beast!

I have no problem with such a regulation and I would appreciate such a small change in the tourney rules!
But after this no one should say: "I lost vs. the overpowered Mayson feds..."

On the other hand Myles, Dominus and Optec are right too!!!

So, my question: Did you already decide to change the rules or is this thread about the question like "What do you think: Should we change the rules???"

The only thing that can change my mind, if the critical mass of tourney players disagree with this decision.

Looks like pandora's box is open. 

[Nuukov]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 4:32 pm

Last edited by Nuukov on November 16th, 2010, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe, not completely ban them, but maybe only one alowed per expansion? And maybe also only one at home base? (Risner restricted to 2)

Maybe?

EDIT: Really in my heart I would love to ban them. But I am trying to be on both sides, but still I hate them
So maybe ban them, but if you want, pluse spam away! 

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 4:34 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe, not completely ban them, but maybe only one alowed per expansion? And maybe also only one at home base? (Risner restricted to 2)

Maybe?

Well that might worth, a bit of talk, but Risner turrets are completely ok, I think.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 4:42 pm

risners phaser turrets are by no means bad, they serve the same purpose for me. Then again i'm not all that big on turrets, i rarely make more than 1 per normal match

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 5:08 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Btw, if more than 3 tourney player will seriously disagree with this, I will completely withdraw, slap myself 5 times in the face, and upload it to youtbe. 

[Boggz]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 5:53 pm

Last edited by Boggz on November 16th, 2010, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well I was on board to put forth the "No Mayson Avatar in the second round" idea.

  I don't think banning a specific unit is such a good idea. 


  Mayson's phaser turret is what is causing the biggest concern.  Risner is a great choice in my opinion.  If there is a vote, my vote is to limit Fed choices to Risner after the 1st round has been completed.  People can still play a fully intact and functional Risner that way .

   The differences are negligible.  None of the Mayson players are even using the Nova or Norway anyway 

[Elim]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 6:10 pm

Last edited by Elim on November 16th, 2010, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There is nothing wrong with the risner avatar. The problem is, killing a mayson phaser costs 6-8 amount the resources in ships than the turret itself, even if its not backed up with ships (but the nasty strat involves building there a yard and letting there some ships). Yeah, there are some units that supposed "counter" turrets, like sekras and Veqlaragh, good luck to pulling them out in a 1v1. 
The reason I don't want to ban it completely, to give the chance of using the avatar specific ships(and bonuses), but true there were no novas, no norways, just heavily relying on phazerss. (I have also no problem with the torpedo turret)

[Kestrel]

posted on November 16th, 2010, 6:29 pm

Last edited by Kestrel on November 16th, 2010, 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have some fear in me starting this thread, but "let slip the dogs of war!"  (I really hope that the ppl who said they will support me in this, will not just disappear and let me become piecemealed by the mayson fans) 

So, the recent common experience in the tournament, shows that the intepid/monsoon+warpin+e2 combination backed up with the infamous phaser turret is may be too much to handle. Observed lot of games,  we also ran numerous test (with klingons, dominion, romulans) outside of the tourney. I don't say we tried everything but it really feels like that anybody who pulls this out, has a too significant advantage.
I't looks like that the Mayson player can easily  defend aginst  multi directional attacks, or even aginst fully concentrated attacks with the help of the phaser turrets.

This is my opinion: The general problem that he can easily hang in the game with suffering huge mining losses and also some combat ship losses, and reach a critical unstoppable mass when the game reaches the 18-25 minute mark(practically when the warpin solts got filled). Really feels like that the other factions can't do anything about it.

One more insane example: Last night, friendly test game, Boggz(martok) vs Clintsat(mayson).
3 sangs were poking an unupgraded platform, it had 11% shields left when Clint upgraded it, (so the sangs didn't suffered any damage til the upgrade) BUT, it was enough to completely scare off the sangs, Boggz tried to micro them to minimize the damage, but phew-phew the sangs instantly lost shields, and the phaser turret was still on about 7-8%....  Is this ok?

One more thing: the problem seems to be non-map specific. On the old duel with the scattered (and less )expansions seemd to favor this strat even more.

So there is the rule: No Mayson phaser turret from the second round of the tournament, if you are in love with the high defense Antares yard ships, you can play Mayson, just keep in mind: No phaser turret.

Now, you can kill me! 

Because 2 sangs cannot beat a turrent... try a valerg class or what ever this can hit it outside of its range, not unbeatable, and yeah i think adding new rules inside a current touranament is just silly.

Putting 1 mayson phaser turrent might sort it a little but then id just get around this by putting 1 phaser and 1 torp turrent, pointless really but by stoping that tactic your pretty much banning mayson from the tourney.... in the middle.