The Defiant

posted on January 25th, 2007, 9:00 am

Makes Sense. They should decrease its offensive power and increase its firerate though. Thats canon because Defiant fires fast.

[Tyrel]

posted on January 27th, 2007, 2:15 pm

Last edited by Tyrel on January 27th, 2007, 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well i think too, Defiants are too strong. Its okay, to make it a fast ship, its okay to make it have insane fire rate, and its also okay to let it have a very strong hull, BUT its not okay to let it have so strong shields and so high damage pulse cannons. There's simply far not enough power for that on a ship of this size. A bunch of defiants are insane foes, and no i dont think equal number of... for an example d'deridexes are able to kill them... If u let them just fight on their own, maybe, but if you micromanage your defiants, make them all shoot the same target and control their special weapons wisely... D'deridexes will just blow to spacedust...
I know Defiant is a very very advanced ship, but size does matter too... Its like Defiant = David and Battleships = Goliaths. Sounds cool maybe for a movie or a childs tale, but it destroys the balance of a strategy game.

posted on January 27th, 2007, 8:44 pm

david did beat goliath didn't he?

posted on January 28th, 2007, 6:08 pm

He did thats why i think defiants shouldnt be able to defeat battleships, it looks only realistic for me if the small ships (defiants) and the big ships (battleships) would have a few centuryes of technological advancement between them. And they dont have, afaik.

[Frodo]

posted on January 28th, 2007, 6:24 pm

Last edited by Frodo on January 28th, 2007, 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yeah thats true mate but the defiant is smaller and nimble so can fly around the big ships hitting them all over for the sake of the argument reducing the special weapon power balances it out in my opinion

posted on February 2nd, 2007, 3:22 am

Personaly, I like the defiants the way they are. The Defiant was put into service during the dominion war. But originaly the class was intended to fight a somewhat stronger foe, Borg Cubes. It makes sense to me, then, that they would pack quite a punch. I do agree the sheilds should be weakend somewhat, maybe somewhere around an Excelsior-II? and its hull strength should be increased.
The strength of the pulse phasers seems fine considering, as someone mentioned, that it does not have the quantum torpedos it should.

 &nsbp; &nsbp;Also, there is one feature inherent to the Defiant class that is notably absent: Defiants incorperated an automated repair system into their design. Thus, cannonly, Defiants should be able to regenerate moderate damage to their hull hp as well as repair damaged systems abit faster then other ships.

 &nsbp; &nsbp;As far as their speed is conscerned, a slight increase would seem appropriate.
The Defiant was not a slow ship "at impulse". However the standard version of the class was limited to warp 3-4 without modifying the engines, but since this game does not support warp (a huge mistake in my opinion, but I digress) it's a moot point.

The Defiants tendency to "cluster" as has been mentioned is a huge strategic advantage. But it makes sence to me that it would do this as its before mentioned compact design lends itself well to it. Indeed, it seems to embrace the Wolfpack concept seeing as how its best used in groups of 3 or more.
My first instinct to counter this would be to form an assault wall with my ships so all their weapons would be able to meet the Defiants immediantly...but FO is another "space" RTS that seems to forget it has an unused degree of movement. Sorry, I'm digressing again arnt I?.

As for criticle shot, it is too powerful when micromanaged and an increase too sp energy cost would work well here.

Ultimately, the problem is your trying to create a balanced strategy war game when the tools of war (be they in the real world, or a fictional one) are designed to be anything but.


Also, kinda OT, but can someone perhaps explain why the Galaxy class requires credits to build but the Sovereign does not? I cant figure that out..

posted on February 6th, 2007, 9:35 am

The Galaxy is a "warp in" vessels, what means that it is no longer produced. the ships you warp in are reinforcements from starfleet and cause you cant suck every vessel out of the federation there is a limit - credits

posted on February 7th, 2007, 2:44 am

Ah I see. that makes sense now I guess, lol ty. Seems reminicent of Real War's system. Not sure were your getting the Galaxy isn't produced any longer though, I thought it was still a ship of the line. But I wont go any further off topic.

posted on February 7th, 2007, 1:28 pm

A ship of the line means, the first ship of a certain type produced. But yes i know what you mean i thought the Galaxy was still being produced, as it is an important spaceframe for Starfleet. However this mod is set slightly after the Dominion War, And thats the way the Story goes according to the Dev teams vision.

posted on February 7th, 2007, 2:04 pm

Do you mean that they've stopped making them, period? Or are they just building them in too small numbers to deserve a shipyard slot?

posted on February 8th, 2007, 2:23 am

Do you mean that they've stopped making them, period? Or are they just building them in too small numbers to deserve a shipyard slot?

well it certainly isn't option 2, I mean you are producing bungoloads of sovi's but then again, there after the Sovi I am not so sure the Galaxy will retain the "omg do everything class" that the sovi now is. Also its not like they kept making ambassadors when the Galaxy was put out, similar theory. and I doubt the sovi is supposed to replace the excelsior, but back on topic the Defiant I think is overpowered, but that is because you can build buhongoloads of them, they are hard to hit with the weapons that would do the real damage to them (torps), maybe make them more susceptible to disruptor and phaser fire (shields and hull get hurt more) and then if a torp hits it does major damage, more so than before.

[Rhaz]

posted on February 8th, 2007, 2:52 am

Last edited by Rhaz on February 8th, 2007, 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Galaxy may be classified as a dreadnought in fleet combat, but the weapon systems and armor of the sovereign come as a much better deal (Without the difficult logistics, massive crew compliment, civilian families, ect) and even though they are the universal ship of the Federation, they are not as combat worthy.

I would argue the galaxy would retain that do everything class idiom that was once filled by the ships of the Excelsior line, as they are much better for exploration, diplomacy, evacuations and peacetime operations, and provide alot more volume than the sovereign class.

And they are much better first contact ships: Noting their much more numerous recreational facilities and much more luxurious quarters.

The Galaxy class will serve for a very long time with major refits in my oppinion, considering that they are so refittable and have so much useful volume which could be converted for additional energy, more weapons, better propulsion, et cetera.

The Defiant class is very combat specific and will likely last much shorter of a time due to the lack of useful volume, which is a limitation on upgrades.

In the game the defiant is however...very overpowered and needs a slight fix.

posted on February 18th, 2007, 1:40 pm

ship of the line refers to ancient fleets of sailing vessels, as they would form lines and broadside each other, and a heavy warship such as a man-of-war, battleship, or heavy frigate would be refereed to as a "ship of the line" for the battleline or line of battle formations they would take up during battle.

posted on February 18th, 2007, 10:44 pm

yes key word being ancient. *takes Casper to one side and slaps him a couple of times*

"ship of the line" hasn't meant that for a very long time, now it has taken on a new meaning as mass production takes over hand built things.

posted on February 21st, 2007, 9:12 am

I think the strength of the Defiant is appropriate. With the resources of Feds, when they decide to build a true warship they're gonna get it right.

If anything I think the special weapon energy cost should be considerably higher. As it stands 4-5 Defiants can disable an entire squadron of Warbirds... given that its purpose is to take down Cubes and that the Defiant is so high up on the tech tree I can accept that it is a very tough ship.

However in First Contact we saw a Defiant accompanied by plenty of backup barely take a Cube, and the Defiant itself was crippled. I understand that we can't keep within the canon's rigid parameters and still have a playable game. But 12-15 mixed classes of Warbirds should = Relentless Hate, especially given their overall costs and time for development. But I honestly think the issue of the Defiant's special weapon is thusly only a major problem for the Roms and the Borg, since all other races aren't as terminally reliant on capital ships. I think 'Critical Shot' should tip the balance (that's what its for), but not seal the deal.