Prometheus in FleetOps?

posted on April 10th, 2012, 7:43 pm

Back on-topic, I personally think the Phalanx is the ugliest ship in the fed armada.   That may be just me though.   :whistling:  I prefer the ship with a Phalanx array. 

Are you sure it's not because the model is not yet improved? There were other Phalanx-Models on Filefront, and some of them looked good. The FO-one just is the worst possible model of it 

posted on April 10th, 2012, 8:51 pm

Are you sure it's not because the model is not yet improved? There were other Phalanx-Models on Filefront, and some of them looked good. The FO-one just is the worst possible model of it 

True, there are better versions, but I am still not a fan of the overall design

posted on April 10th, 2012, 10:17 pm

even if they dont make a mvam (yet) it would still be cool to see prometheus in game. perhaps it could have an "assault barrage" mode for a short period.

weaker weapon than phalanx (apart from the assault barrage) but a much harder hull (since it has a blade of hull armour)
shields probably similar

I like were your going with this. Also the PROME would have to be overall fast than the phalanx too. Build speed similar or a little faster than the phalanx as well.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 9:15 am

At least one of the devs really doesn't like MVAM, which I suspect has blocked the Prometheus from being anything other than a half-developed map-object ship, so instead of that perhaps something based on "Attack Pattern Alpha".

Oh come on... Only because of this? Thats not fair.

First: The ship-class is canon
Second: The MVAM is probably not so strong as we think.

It is unclear if the Prometheus had superior firepower to a D'deridex-class Warbird. The Warbird that Prometheus destroyed was already damaged by the other three Starfleet ships ( two Defiant-class vessels and one Akira-class vessel). We didn´t see the complete battle between the Warbirds and the three Starfleet Ships. But they were fighting certainly. And a small Fed-Fleet like this can do a lot of damage. Just think at DS9 and the battles of USS Defiant.

The ship is a dedicated warship, an experimental deep-space tactical prototype. As we have seen in Endgame Part II, the tests went well, because a Prometheus-Class escorts the USS Voyager back to earth. Apparently, the ship went into production.

I still like my version; one is built without MVAM, one is Warp-in with MVAM.

That sounds good.

But what about the values, and the veteran abilities?

posted on August 28th, 2012, 9:42 am

But what about the values, and the veteran abilities?

Once the devs found a role for a new ship, they will have a close look at what makes sense, what doesn't, if the ship was canon in any way and what might have been special about it.

In the end, implementations of new ships are usually not entirely final. The fine-tuning is more or less done after there's been enough feedback by players who used new units in Multiplayer-Mode against other players.

The Prometheus was a tactical deep-space cruiser with MVAM and regenerative shielding. That's all canon info. On screen, the ship had roughly the overall size of an Akira (thinner but also longer and a little more bulky).

What role it might get in FO is probably still not determined, as the Prometheus seems to be on low priority until the devs have a real gap to fill in which the ship will fit in. It's also not exactly the ship that Optec doesn't like, it is the MVAM and the fact that MVAM is over-emphasized by most Prometheus-fans out there. The devs didn't have a way to implement MVAM in a way that makes sense and looks good.

However if the Prometheus gets implemented with the MVAM, I'm sure it might be one of the just recently included "pattern"-mechanics. At the very least, as a special attack pattern the MVAM would make sense in terms of actual gameplay other than to have a powerful combat-vessel have its attack-power divided by three.

As for the veteran ablities: These are usually very much expressing and enhancing the most important aspect of a ship. Take the Negh'var. So far it has been a heavy-hitting, fast attack-cruiser. The veteran gets heavy heavy disruptor cannons which underline the aspect of dealing high damage on attack.
Or take the Nova, which opens up additional warpin-slots when getting to veteran, underlining the supporting nature.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 1:16 pm

First: The ship-class is canon

fine, if we're going by this logic, i'll have my warp 10 shuttle now then pls.

it goes 10 sanics and is so fast it is everywhere at same time, so it gives LoS on all map instantly.

then the 1 crew evolves into a lizard and dies, leaving the ship derelict at a random spot on the map.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 2:40 pm

First: The ship-class is canon

fine, if we're going by this logic, i'll have my warp 10 shuttle now then pls.

it goes 10 sanics and is so fast it is everywhere at same time, so it gives LoS on all map instantly.

then the 1 crew evolves into a lizard and dies, leaving the ship derelict at a random spot on the map.

That would be interesting to see implemented. Maybe after a certain amount of time the ship launching the shuttle would lose experience due to the fact that an officer changed species.

I like the look of the ship itself, but I don't know if the Federation needs another ship at the moment. And MVAM, regardless of whether you like the idea or not, would be hard to implement. And since it's a defining characteristic of the Prometheus it wouldn't make sense to include the ship without it.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 2:43 pm

First: The ship-class is canon

fine, if we're going by this logic, i'll have my warp 10 shuttle now then pls.

it goes 10 sanics and is so fast it is everywhere at same time, so it gives LoS on all map instantly.

then the 1 crew evolves into a lizard and dies, leaving the ship derelict at a random spot on the map.

Your logic is flawed as that ship is not canon. Tom Paris even said so.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 4:03 pm

First: The ship-class is canon

fine, if we're going by this logic, i'll have my warp 10 shuttle now then pls.

it goes 10 sanics and is so fast it is everywhere at same time, so it gives LoS on all map instantly.

then the 1 crew evolves into a lizard and dies, leaving the ship derelict at a random spot on the map.

Your logic is flawed as that ship is not canon. Tom Paris even said so.

technically that's not true. as much i'd like to get rid of threshold, canon is inflexible. threshold is still canon. that's why in games "it's canon" is absolutely no defence for something being added. the prommie being canon is no defence for it being in a game.

also tom said he'd never flown at transwarp before. and the word transwarp is used very inconsistently.
MA says:

Transwarp is a generic term for some speeds that exceed traditional warp drive limits.

so what he meant by never flying at transwarp is anyone's guess. borg transwarp (not the corridor verison) is different from voth transwarp. then there's the federation experimental transpwarp for the excelsior. then there's transwarp corridors (not just used by the borg). the word transwarp was badly misused, all we know is that it's really fast.

but at least it's not as bad as in jj's movie, where you can use "transwarp beaming" to send someone between star systems. god dammit jj.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 4:30 pm

Canon isn't inflexible or retcons and Canon Discontinuity wouldn't exist. Fans can't change canon, but the show itself can pretend it never happened. The show writers seem quite fine calling it non-canon.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 8:27 pm

Canon isn't inflexible or retcons and Canon Discontinuity wouldn't exist. Fans can't change canon, but the show itself can pretend it never happened. The show writers seem quite fine calling it non-canon.

retcons are fine, but they are (necessarily) a part of canon. by canon is inflexible, i mean that the definition of what constitutes canon (for star trek) is inflexible, the only way to change canon is to do so in more canon, the makers can't change things unless they do it in canon, by 'making' more star trek.

so just by saying they don't like it they don't remove it from canon. if, however, they'd made a new episode which revealed it was all tom dreaming after eating some of neelix's stash of shrooms, then that would be canon.

if threshold had been retconned out then i'd be more than happy, it was tripe.

sadly, as i explained above, it hasn't been retconned out. we have a later line about 'transwarp' that can be taken to mean many things. we just have to accept that canon includes some occasionally crap bits. look at all of TOS and the first season of TNG for many examples of bad episodes.

threshold isn't even my least favourite episode of trek, 'TNG: Shades of Grey' is. at least threshold tried, it failed miserably, but there was effort to do something of interest. there was even the first appearance of the shiny new speedboat shuttle. Threshold had a go at it. Shades didn't even try, it was just a shameless clip show, made even worse by the fact that it happened near the beginning of TNG, so the clips were really dull. Shades is the worst possible way of failing: not even trying. Also it put riker close to death but let him live, i'll never forgive them for teasing me like that.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 9:14 pm

threshold isn't even my least favourite episode of trek, 'TNG: Shades of Grey' is.

I agree, although I sometimes thought the first episodes until "the battle" were en pare with it (and may be "the Royale". The clip-show on DS9 was bad, but Shades of grey made me wish someone dies in the end (although except for the episodes between "mission farpoint" and "the battle" as well as "the Royale" I truly love TNG). The only thing they sort of tried there was to make the final appearance of Dr. Pulaski something of a "job for a doc", but then again the episode focused on Riker all the time with Pulaski mainly just doing her job... The conclusion in "measure of a man" would have made for a far better last appearance of Pulaski on the show.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 9:44 pm

retcons are fine, but they are (necessarily) a part of canon. by canon is inflexible, i mean that the definition of what constitutes canon (for star trek) is inflexible, the only way to change canon is to do so in more canon, the makers can't change things unless they do it in canon, by 'making' more star trek.

so just by saying they don't like it they don't remove it from canon. if, however, they'd made a new episode which revealed it was all tom dreaming after eating some of neelix's stash of shrooms, then that would be canon.
sadly, as i explained above, it hasn't been retconned out. we have a later line about 'transwarp' that can be taken to mean many things.

It means many things, though the Voyager crew normally mean the Warp 10 barrier when they talk about it with only Borg or Voth using it for just a fast engine (unless they're talking about their tech). The Starfleet definition doesn't seem to have used it for 'faster than normal Warp' since the TMP movies. Having him say it is him saying the barrier wasn't broken.

Can't be know for sure in-universe if Tom meant that Transwarp, but the writers (supposedly) stating the episode wasn't canon and then adding the no-transwarp line cuts down of possible interpretations of their intentions quite a bit.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 10:37 pm

Can't be know for sure in-universe if Tom meant that Transwarp

this is what i am saying, i'm not comfortable assuming more things than the facts say.

so we have to agree to disagree here, i don't think the evidence is conclusive enough to dismiss the warp 10 atrocity. hence i can still use it to straw man the "it's canon" justification for the prommie.

there are plenty of less controversial stupid things that are canon that should also never make it into a game. i'm looking at you echo papa shampoo bottles.

posted on August 28th, 2012, 11:16 pm

I admitted it doesn't specifiy in-universe, which doesn't change the writers intentions that generally seem to have been to remove it from canon through denial of the episode.

Yes, let's agree to disagree. You're like Memory Alpha; everything must be explained to the last detail to count and writer intentions mean nothing... no offense.

You got your personal canon policy from them, didn't you?