There Can Only Be One Hyper Arty!

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 10:44 pm

Omfg, Neb ... READ the post.

Awe, but its just so much fun to respond to a topic when you have no clue what it really is about


I wholeheartedly agree that the hyperspace artillery should either be nerfed, or reduced to one. There have been countless games where the blasted thing has caused so much grief as its so cheap and practically kills everything. I had to spam Spectre's! SPECTRES!!! Funny had to spam a ship he hates, and even still most of them got incinerated by the blast.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 10:54 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on October 22nd, 2010, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Omfg, Neb ... READ the post.

I did read...I DISAGREE with the post!

In order to solve the problem of lag problems I'd prefer to increase the time before HSA is firing. 3seconds is just not enough. Few ships can escape then(at least not, if it they are not moving already). 5seconds would be better AND (although I think it may not be possible due to engine restrictions): the HSA shouldn't fire when it's already destroyed. It happened several times to me, I destroyed the damn thing but its shot hit me nevertheless.
1500dil would be way too much for the HSA(that's the price of a Dreadnought), 500-600I'd be okay with(like most other Arty ships, leaving Steamrunner aside). The best weapon against HSA is scouting, it needs ages to build and is very slow.

It's already 5 seconds...

i wouldnt be against hsa costing a small amount more, to make u value them. But i am against changing the caps.

Also neb i stopped reading your post when u said breen are only good for B8, that smacks of you not even knowing how to play dominion. Breen are good, read the guide for why.

Hsa is fine. If u let the enemy tech up to them early, u made a mistake, if they build it later then u shouldnt have little ships as the majority of your fleet.

I do think it would make more sense to have the hsa lose engines for 10 seconds either side of firing, as it diverts energy to power the gun.

I know all about what Breen get, and I don't think it's all that great compared to protos that won't cripple your econ easily.

I like the engine idea.

I agree with Boggz.  2 HSA is just too overpowered in moderately laggy games.  They cost next to nothing and do not even hold up a yard.  One serves the purpose in my opinion.

You cannot balance an RTS for lag, it will not work. Even if it does work, it will just mess up non-lag playing severely. Don't play laggy games if they make you die to HSA.
I agree about the cost tho.

I wholeheartedly agree that the hyperspace artillery should either be nerfed, or reduced to one. There have been countless games where the blasted thing has caused so much grief as its so cheap and practically kills everything. I had to spam Spectre's! SPECTRES!!! Funny had to spam a ship he hates, and even still most of them got incinerated by the blast.

Maybe you should've tried something other than Spectres. Spectres don't strike me as an HSA counter.
I don't want to see HSA over-nerfed. Hopefully a size-based damage scaling and some price increase will be enuff. Or an engine disablement for some time and one of the two other nerfs. I think all three would be too much.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:17 pm

Fight, Fight Fight!!! :fish:

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:24 pm

I don't want to see HSA over-nerfed.

Fair enough.

  This is NOT about nerfing the HSA.  It's about capping both races at 1.


The reason I assume you didn't bother to read my post is because it's NOT ABOUT NERFING THE HSA.  It's about limiting them to one so that a normal counter (larger ships that cannot be destroyed by one blast) are not rendered pointless by having them instantly destroyed by a double blast.

  Does this not make sense to you?  Do you REALLY feel that puretech (with cheaper protos) NEEDS to have double whammy HSA?

  In 1 v 1 the Hyper Arty strat is not a good one, but RTS games are not solely about 1 v 1 and this community plays lots of team games.  It's MUCH easier to grab a pair of them in a team game and, due to it's infinite damage, a pair of them can wipe out any number of ships.

  The HSA does not need to be nerfed, I'm simply asking for both avatars to be capped at one. 

[Arash8472]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:31 pm

Last edited by Arash8472 on October 22nd, 2010, 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bogz here is my question;  for pure tech most of dominion goodies are in adv. yard and the small yard ships are basically kind of weak for pure... so pure relies on 2x HSA, while breen relies on small yard torp ships and breen battle ship from advance yard...

so in my point of view breen gets breen battle ship with disabling special and pure gets 2x HSA since enemy fleets can destroy weak dominion ships (even if the dominion out number enemy ships)


my problem with HSA is that it affects all ships.. i think there should be a limit that it affects 10 or 15 ships max.. or can be like nanites that the damage becomes divided as more ships are targeted...

edit: jesus flipping goodness so many mistakes forgive me >.>;

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:36 pm

Why not remove all of the caps from everything?  Let me guess, that would be overpowered, right?  I believe that is the idea of war.  To overpower your enemy.

Every time I've used the hyperspace artillery, I've always ended up having to bring in my fleet anyways, so I fail to see the point of putting a cap on it at all.  The hyperspace artillery seems useless to me.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:39 pm

Fair enough.

  This is NOT about nerfing the HSA.  It's about capping both races at 1.


The reason I assume you didn't bother to read my post is because it's NOT ABOUT NERFING THE HSA.  It's about limiting them to one so that a normal counter (larger ships that cannot be destroyed by one blast) are not rendered pointless by having them instantly destroyed by a double blast.

   Does this not make sense to you?  Do you REALLY feel that puretech (with cheaper protos) NEEDS to have double whammy HSA?

   In 1 v 1 the Hyper Arty strat is not a good one, but RTS games are not solely about 1 v 1 and this community plays lots of team games.  It's MUCH easier to grab a pair of them in a team game and, due to it's infinite damage, a pair of them can wipe out any number of ships.

  The HSA does not need to be nerfed, I'm simply asking for both avatars to be capped at one. 

I disagree about limiting it to 1, I want to see 2 of them (for both Avatars, but I doubt people will go for both hving 2), possibly nerfed if necessary. There's more than one way to balance it.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:39 pm

9 times out of 10 'useless' = don't know how to use properly.

That it is war is irrelevant; you still have limits to the resources available and rare tech/ships are still rare.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:40 pm

Why not remove all of the caps from everything?  Let me guess, that would be overpowered, right?  I believe that is the idea of war.  To overpower your enemy.

Every time I've used the hyperspace artillery, I've always ended up having to bring in my fleet anyways, so I fail to see the point of putting a cap on it at all.  The hyperspace artillery seems useless to me.

your perspective would change if you played online more

fleetops isnt balanced for play against the ai, so your observations about playing vs the ai wont factor into the balance of the game.

i can safely say hsa is far from useless. i mean this thread was started by someone who thinks it's too strong.

op things are bad. whats the point of playing a game with balancing issues?

[Boggz]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:45 pm

Last edited by Boggz on October 22nd, 2010, 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i mean this thread was started by someone who thinks it's too strong.

Oh good ... another person who didn't read.  I don't think it's too strong .... I just think Pure shouldn't be able to build 2 ... 


Sigh ...

  I give up ...


Nevermind about all this, guys!  You three clearly have had put a lot of thought into this and I'm starting to believe that maybe I was wrong.


 Nebbie, next time we're in a game together I'll be sure to show you what I mean about this .

 Arash, Puretech has cheaper Protos in the small yard and stronger V-13 + S-7's in the Big yard.  Breen Battleships are immensely expensive and slow.  How exactly is Pure at SUCH a disadvantage that they NEED two HSA?  I mean ... c'mon ... really?





 Look guys ... the point here is that the best Puretech Dominion players I see out there rarely ever get the HSA.  They steamroll people with low-tech hordes supported by C-17 or T-15 (or they play Breen).  The newer Dominion players make a few bugs and then RACE to a pair of Hyper Arties.  The reason being because a single good hit with them will erase even the best opponent's fleet.  It's like a coin toss for a newer player to stomp a better one with a toy.

  But nevermind ... I've clearly been outvoted.  And TCR's logic was just to sound for me

 Where's Mal?  I need a laff ....

[Anonymous]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:50 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on October 22nd, 2010, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lol s-7 is slow too boggz. breen battleships are potent if u use them against enemy battleships. mince meat, well worth the cost.

breen torp bonus is pretty cool. makes kebab from borg ships. especially since breen gives u the breen ships with ssec, which make spheres feel exposed.

i like the uniqueness of pure getting 1 more hsa.

i do think a slight cost increase to put them a little further away from the start of the game would be appropriate. just like if u wanna get a fast pyramid u need to pool money and sacrifice smaller ships, going for hsas should stop u making an effective fleet.

lol boggz dont give up. u dont want neb and tcr to ridicule you forever

EDIT:

Oh good ... another person who didn't read.  I don't think it's too strong .... I just think Pure shouldn't be able to build 2 ... 

lol i was referring to the hsa strats in general, not the ship itself. u are saying that having 2 is wrong, therefore a double hsa strat is too strong. which is what my point was.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 11:56 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on October 23rd, 2010, 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh good ... another person who didn't read.  I don't think it's too strong .... I just think Pure shouldn't be able to build 2 ... 


Sigh ...

  I give up ...


Nevermind about all this, guys!  You three clearly have had put a lot of thought into this and I'm starting to believe that maybe I was wrong.


 Nebbie, next time we're in a game together I'll be sure to show you what I mean about this .

 Arash, Puretech has cheaper Protos in the small yard and stronger V-13 + S-7's in the Big yard.  Breen Battleships are immensely expensive and slow.  How exactly is Pure at SUCH a disadvantage that they NEED two HSA?  I mean ... c'mon ... really?





 Look guys ... the point here is that the best Puretech Dominion players I see out there rarely ever get the HSA.  They steamroll people with low-tech hordes supported by C-17 or T-15 (or they play Breen).  The newer Dominion players make a few bugs and then RACE to a pair of Hyper Arties.  The reason being because a single good hit with them will erase even the best opponent's fleet.  It's like a coin toss for a newer player to stomp a better one with a toy.

  But nevermind ... I've clearly been outvoted.  And TCR's logic was just to sound for me

 Where's Mal?  I need a laff ....

If you don't think 2 of them are too strong, then what the fuck is this thread for?????????? If you're saying one is perfect but two are too strong, then I would ask you to please rephrase your last post so that it says that 2 of them are too strong (I'm not a fan of ambiguity in wording.)

I can handle HSA just fine, Boggz, tho I think you're better at micro than me and so you'd win with HSA.

This is most of my point about why Breen should get 2 as well. It resolves any issue of 2 being too powerful while one isn't, since it could be nerfed some and 2 would be just right, while it would lead to a smoother jump in offensive power as it isn't just whether you have HSA or not. I want both avatars to have the same number of HSA, I just think that 2 is a better number than one.

Well then, those players suck and should learn to play better, HSA rush isn't going to do too great once they come up against a smart/skilled opponent.

[Boggz]

posted on October 23rd, 2010, 12:07 am

Last edited by Boggz on October 23rd, 2010, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

   Now its up to YOU guys ... to decide who the cow is.


[align=center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfeZXWXmI_0&feature=related[/youtube][/align]


 

  THIS, of course, is how Boggz feels ....


[align=center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2iyPmucFk&feature=related[/youtube][/align]

posted on October 23rd, 2010, 12:08 am

Maybe you should've tried something other than Spectres. Spectres don't strike me as an HSA counter.
I don't want to see HSA over-nerfed. Hopefully a size-based damage scaling and some price increase will be enuff. Or an engine disablement for some time and one of the two other nerfs. I think all three would be too much.

You're right I should have spammed Tavaras.  :rolleyes:

Nebbie, next time we're in a game together I'll be sure to show you what I mean about this .

You can count me in too!

If you don't think 2 of them are too strong, then what the fuck is this thread for?????????? If you're saying one is perfect but two are too strong, then I would ask you to please rephrase your last post so that it says that 2 of them are too strong (I'm not a fan of ambiguity in wording.)

I can handle HSA just fine, Boggz, tho I think you're better at micro than me and so you'd win with HSA.

This is most of my point about why Breen should get 2 as well. It resolves any issue of 2 being too powerful while one isn't, since it could be nerfed some and 2 would be just right, while it would lead to a smoother jump in offensive power as it isn't just whether you have HSA or not. I want both avatars to have the same number of HSA, I just think that 2 is a better number than one.

No you can't handle hyperspace artys just fine. I refuse to believe that. Star and I, together, in the same game could barely beat it, and we had to use Bortas. I kept my rheinns and spectres always moving, and still lost 2/3 of my fleet every time HSA went off. And then in another 2 minutes, it happens again.
   The Hyperpspace artillery can also kill miners without ever having to get near to an enemies base. I don't see how anyone could think that its balanced especially for its cheap cost.

posted on October 23rd, 2010, 12:14 am

Keeping with the Jim Carrey theme here .....


  This is what any veteran player does when his/her fleet gets pwned by a new player with a pair of hyper arties.




[align=center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmklTvAkbM&NR=1[/youtube][/align]