There Can Only Be One Hyper Arty!

[Boggz]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:02 am

Last edited by Boggz on October 22nd, 2010, 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

   Well ... so there's been some hard feelings lately about the Hyper Artillery.  Surprise surprise.


  Right off the bat here's my request:  Please limit the Puretech HSA to just 1


Part of the frustration surrounding it is that it can level an entire fleet of ships in a single blast.  Another part is that it does not have to sit still to fire, not does it even have to face it's target.  Yet another part is that the lag and delay realities of online play mean that sometimes (even with enough time) you cannot effectively avoid the blast due to the game mechanics.

   All of this can somewhat be made up for in part by a simple change:  tech up and get stronger ships.  Heavier ships can survive the blast intact even if they cannot avoid it as well.

 
  However ... when someone has 2 of the damn things ... there's really very little recompense .  Against buildings or expansions there is also little to be done about 2 HSA.

Of course they have counters... but I feel that there is really no good balancing reason why they NEED the ability to make 2. 

  Thanks


THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE HIGHLANDER HYPER SPACE ARTILLERY! 



[align=center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRHRY1cte4&feature=related[/youtube][/align]

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:14 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on October 22nd, 2010, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

I would actually prefer that both avatars get a limit of 2, as I don't think Breen should have such a small limit of just one (right now only the B8 is the major thing making people choose Breen, once that bug goes away we'll likely see Puretech be chosen almost aways due to cheap protos and double HSA.)

Lag will fuck up any micro really. FO is balanced for lag-free gameplay, and shouldn't be balanced for laggy gameplay.

HSA is very weak defensively and can't fire again for a while, just come up to it and blow it away. If you can't come up to it, just attack the Dom fleet, or attack an expansion away from the HSA. HSA is slow, so it won't be going across the map very often.
Really, once you survive the HSA shot, that huge part of your enemy's offense is out of the fight for a while. This gives a good attacking opportunity, especially if you're a cloaker.
Borg don't need to worry generally as they have big ships and Scubes are 140 speed.
Feds have fast small ships and the defense to survive, plus they're OP anyways.
Maybe Dominion has problems, but S-2s are 140 speed, and they can increase your fleet's offense. One Bug can take out HSA's engines too. Breen Cruiers could uncloak on top of the thing. C-17s could pink beam it in like two beams I think (plus don't they have like a superridiculous defense boost that's perfect for surviving that one shot?) And bombers can kill an HSA very easily, just keep from getting killed by the HSA's blast.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:16 am

Sigh .....

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:33 am

Well boggz, at the very least you can be thankfull that there shockwave vessel is gone

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:36 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on October 22nd, 2010, 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Okay, I took a look at the build costs just now. 300 is far too little dilithium for a massive gun that shoots explosions through hyperspace.

I would like the HSA to be increased to at least 1500 dilithium and 600 tritanium. Also maybe a build time increase.

Perhaps also, to help with countering, it could get a change so that the damage it does is based on unit size or unit health.
I'm not so sure it needs a better counter by large ships, but I guess having a stronger counter is usually better.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:40 am

I thought the HSA was going to be nurfed anyway

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 2:56 am

Lol Nebbie ... something about your responses always leads me to believe you never bother reading the original post.


  I'm saying that right now there seems to be a decent way of handling a Hyper Arty for just about everyone. 

But not two.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 3:08 am

Two hyper-arties are just like one, get your fleet out of the way of the blasts and kill the things.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 6:08 am

I like the difference between the two avatars so perhaps as someone already suggested cost could be increased.  Alternately, make the range shorter so you have to take a bigger risk when using it.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 6:47 am

Two hyper-arties are just like one, get your fleet out of the way of the blasts and kill the things.

Omfg, Neb ... READ the post.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 8:09 am

i wouldnt be against hsa costing a small amount more, to make u value them. But i am against changing the caps.

Also neb i stopped reading your post when u said breen are only good for B8, that smacks of you not even knowing how to play dominion. Breen are good, read the guide for why.

Hsa is fine. If u let the enemy tech up to them early, u made a mistake, if they build it later then u shouldnt have little ships as the majority of your fleet.

I do think it would make more sense to have the hsa lose engines for 10 seconds either side of firing, as it diverts energy to power the gun.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 8:29 am

In order to solve the problem of lag problems I'd prefer to increase the time before HSA is firing. 3seconds is just not enough. Few ships can escape then(at least not, if it they are not moving already). 5seconds would be better AND (although I think it may not be possible due to engine restrictions): the HSA shouldn't fire when it's already destroyed. It happened several times to me, I destroyed the damn thing but its shot hit me nevertheless.
1500dil would be way too much for the HSA(that's the price of a Dreadnought), 500-600I'd be okay with(like most other Arty ships, leaving Steamrunner aside). The best weapon against HSA is scouting, it needs ages to build and is very slow.

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 8:36 am

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on October 22nd, 2010, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think too that one HSA is enough for both dominion avatars, since it still has superior firepower in a single shot. Also, a HSA isn't that weak in defense for an artillery vessel. What was the defense-value? 39? That's not weak at all, since it still can sustain some damage if cought in the act so a careful player has quite a chance to save it with other vessels. And even if lost, with very few dil/tri and laughable 20 supplies (that thing is larger than a defender) you're soon back with your firepower.

Edit: In addition to the defense of the HSA alone, you only know where it is if you have scouted well. If not, it could be anywhere and while you search in area X it could have retreated to area R because you cannot see where the shot came from; Finding it can be very frustrating.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 6:18 pm

hsa countdown is already 5 seconds. which is enough.

posted on October 22nd, 2010, 9:07 pm

I agree with Boggz.  2 HSA is just too overpowered in moderately laggy games.  They cost next to nothing and do not even hold up a yard.  One serves the purpose in my opinion.