Make canaveral more useful against Leavhals with more speed

posted on September 13th, 2011, 6:44 am

Hey... currently Feds have no passive counter ship against leavhals except caraneral class. However, Canaveral in this patch has a speed of only 100, which makes them useless against the speedy leavhals with speed of 130. My suggestion for next patch is to increase the speed of Canaveral class to 120-130 so that feds will finally have a good counter against the leavhals. If not, at least a special which will slow down enemy ships or give it momentary speed boost rather than the useless Sensor Synergy special which they have in this game.

posted on September 13th, 2011, 9:12 am

wow that would be painful for the other races. a 120-130 speed long range support ship.

also sensor synergy isnt useless, put one at your exp and repeatedly use it on your mining and you will get huge sensor boosts, and it really costs nothing since outside of battle you can just wait for your canaveral to recharge the energy. it takes only time.

try mix sabre with canaveral against leahvals. you can tech to e2 later as well. several advantages:

1) you get early numbers as no need for engineering.
2) sabres can cover fire canaverals
3) sabres are fast with hyper impulse on
4) can kite to a small degree with an all long range fleet
5) can get canaveral specials, which are all useful. and if the game goes evenly and you both switch to other strats, the canaverals will be helpful when you add other ships.

also if u go mayson you can get norways without engineering too. that opens up several strats. most importantly vs roms it gives u recharge for your venture's awesome cloak detection.

[beserene]

posted on September 13th, 2011, 10:54 am

Last edited by beserene on September 13th, 2011, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey... currently Feds have no passive counter ship against leavhals except caraneral class
...
so that feds will finally have a good counter against the leavhals.

Just double yard Monsoons - even two of them are cheaper than a single leavahl, at least for me this worked quite well so far.
They're way cheaper, faster, and got neat snipe capabilities with the proxy torp.


A good way to use them is with the warpin-hybrid and some saber / monsoons as cannon fodder, if you face a lot of short range stuff - please correct me here, only tried that once, maybe i got lucky.

In general, yes,... i can't see a good reason to build em either. Seen some neat Saber / Canaveral spams, like Myles already said, but it can be countered a lil bit too easy in my oppinion. Faster Canaverals would be nice, but maybe kill the balancing. I just think about a raiding fleet that counters every range and with a speed of 130, or just the Canaverals with their insane range against poor rom miners... no 

posted on September 13th, 2011, 12:03 pm

double yard monsoons is a much cheaper way to beat leahvals, but yes that works too. you will completely bumrush them with numbers. you'll have a yard at your exp too. the easiest way to do it is just use all proximity torps on the current target taking damage. then use 140 speed to run away and hide until next promiximity. rinse and repeat. you can add some style to this by only using as many proximity torps as it will take to kill the currently damaged ship. that way you might squeeze 2 kills out if your micro is good. either way each time they can guarantee at least 1 kill, probably 2. which doesnt really matter as a leahval costs over twice as much dil, 3 times as much tri and twice as much supply. the monsoon takes a few seconds longer to make. but is being churned out of 2 yards easily. protect your dil mining, let them have more shots at tri mining, as the monsoon is tri light. then go attack any of their mining, as the leahval costs loads of both resource. if they switch to griffins then add in some intreps.

as for the canav, i can give 1 big reason to use it easily, sensor blackout. makes the enemy shoot less and is easy to use. works a treat in any situation. other reasons are to counter stuff (short range or adai) and to hurt destroyers in general. it has a pulse, and that pulse has an extra bonus against destroyers.

posted on September 13th, 2011, 4:53 pm

While I agree that Leahvals are a real problem for Feds right now, I feel that the Canav could cause some real problems if it's speed were to be increased.

posted on September 13th, 2011, 5:44 pm

While I agree that Leahvals are a real problem for Feds right now, I feel that the Canav could cause some real problems if it's speed were to be increased.

The canaverals are very weak tho they may have a range advanatate on lahevals but they dont hit very hard at all apart from the c-11 they are the weakest support ship.

posted on September 13th, 2011, 6:09 pm

The canaverals are very weak tho they may have a range advanatate on lahevals but they dont hit very hard at all apart from the c-11 they are the weakest support ship.

A not too small group of Canaverals could still have one or two ships using their awesome sensor-blackout and then turning the EC3M on to last longer. It would give them at least the chance to handle the situation.
Note that the Canaveral is a dedicated support ship with long range. Usually they should support the dedicated combat-vessels with their range-advantage and their specials.

posted on September 13th, 2011, 8:00 pm

Well again I feel that the Canaveral is not supposed to be a DPS monster.  The Canav is a support ship, not a ship meant to do combat with and destroy a heavier support ship with regen capabilities like the Leahval.

  Canav's are there to do extra damage and use Sensor Blackout, allowing ships like the Monsoon and Akira to go toe-to-toe.

posted on September 17th, 2011, 11:57 pm

useless Sensor Synergy

Oh wow I cant even START to describe how foolish that sounds, so I'll post some pictures!

This is the minimap.
I fired up the flops editor with DualII and added a carnival, a mining station, and a starfleet science (upper right of the map) to research the synergy.

The sensor boost is given to the mining platform.

Useless you say ?

edit: Oh and get ready, I've used the synergy against you to great effect before, so nice to see what the borg are sending my way.

Attachments

posted on September 18th, 2011, 1:59 am

The canaverals are very weak tho they may have a range advanatate on lahevals but they dont hit very hard at all apart from the c-11 they are the weakest support ship.

  Try not to think about it as an actual COUNTER to other ships.  In rare cases it can be, but really it's a support ship useful mainly for it's abilities like EC3M and Blackout.  Sensor Synergy is an underutilized ability with great uses and I encourage people to make an effort to use it more.  You should never try to counter a ship by utilizing ONLY Canaverals - it's a huge mistake .  Only against Intrepids will they really do so well. Use them as backup for your other forces and utilize their range along with your Excelsiors to put out damage first against the short range and medium range ships your opponent fields.


  In short:  The Canaveral isn't SUPPOSED to counter ships like the Leahval in combat, it's supposed to be a strong opposition to it that help other ships that are weak to Leahval actually do combat like the Akira and Monsoon.

posted on September 18th, 2011, 3:00 am

Canaverals are great!  Combine them with a fast warpin rush and a repair ship, and the enemy will be begging for mercy

posted on September 18th, 2011, 5:32 am

If nothing else, against a borg or another fed, send a few carnivals to your expansions, put them all in the same group (usually group 8-0 for me, where I put my support stuff), and keep the synergy going nearly non stop, great way to have a much expanded warning of an attack.

Nothing funnier than ambushing an alpha strike on your expansion..... or just having the expansion vanish while your fleet visits their main base.

posted on September 18th, 2011, 6:42 am

Canaverals are great!  Combine them with a fast warpin rush and a repair ship, and the enemy will be begging for mercy

Did i miss something last game? It looked more like the other way around 


Thanks for the pics tokra, i still think 20 seconds isn't that much of an advantage - could be longer? 45 - 60 seconds maybe?
But the sensor blackout could be something really useful. 2-4 Canaverals, and most enemy fleets are completely affected, and 35% decreased firing rate is quite a punch.

posted on September 18th, 2011, 7:24 am

35% is indeed quite the punch . 

  It used to be 75% over an unlimited number of units .  God almighty was that broken ....

[Getready2die]

posted on September 18th, 2011, 7:26 am

Last edited by Getready2die on September 18th, 2011, 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

I agree with increased sight for stations not being that useful since it is only for like 20 seconds ... If we want greater sight, we always have the nebula class for that.