Generix - once more

posted on July 24th, 2010, 3:59 pm

When 6-8 ships count as 'spam' something is WRONG.

That's not spam.  15-30?  That's spam.  When a filled out fleet comes at you, all Generix or Akira...that's spam.  A small strike force, however, is not spam.  Yeesh.

Someone should spam K'ting'a and see how much screaming happens at this.

Yes, I'm cranky about that, but the short-term duration of most of these online games is redefining spam to mean something that in the RTS context it most definately does not.  It'd be like redefining a beeftip as a steak.

posted on July 24th, 2010, 4:22 pm

Hey I dont spam them! I stop at 8 and then get intrepids, e2s, remores, avalons, defiants, sovs, warpins and phalanxs. 

Well, maybe now, but you know what I mean .

@ Mimesot, you can be sure that anything that will be added or removed will be balanced - it's not as if we are trying to destroy Fleet Ops . Shield Recharge in any shape or form will always be overpowered. It's also not fitting to the style of Fleet Ops, and thus has been slated for removal for quite a long time. Alas, coding sometimes takes longer than expected, as do other features which have priority

posted on July 26th, 2010, 5:35 am

2 things I want to mention:

First, someone mentioned that a relatively new player won't be able to defeat spectres, and that only a player with very good micro can do it effectively.  But at the same time, USING spectres to attack, cloak, and retreat is EQUALLY hard.  Romulan players have less time for movement and special ability micro because our regular attacks require a lot of micro-management.  It SHOULD require a lot of skill to counter a strategy that requires a lot of skill to pull off in the first place.

Second, I actually oppose the removal of shield recharge in the next patch (Says the guy who plays only Romulans)  Early game, Romulans can cloak and run but once you reach a certain number of ships in the battle (or vs borg, they get nanites) it becomes 100% useless as a strategy.  You can no longer cloak and run, and ship-for-ship your fleet costs more than the enemy.  Shield recharge introduces a mid/late game ability to augment and even replace the heavy cloaking you've been doing all through the beginning.

Limiting 6 support generix makes it EXTREMELY effective for a small gang of ships, but still isn't overpowered in a large fleet.  Just snipe them, or disable them, or deal enough damage to overwhelm them, and the romulans have to take a few minutes to reproduce them.

Whatever new ability you add, I hope it is related to 'saving' a single ship, or at least boosting Romulans' large fleet performance.  No buffs/damage that only affect a limited number of ships, I'd rather have a weak ability that hits EVERYBODY in its area of effect.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on July 26th, 2010, 7:31 am

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on July 26th, 2010, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2 things I want to mention:

First, someone mentioned that a relatively new player won't be able to defeat spectres, and that only a player with very good micro can do it effectively.  But at the same time, USING spectres to attack, cloak, and retreat is EQUALLY hard.  Romulan players have less time for movement and special ability micro because our regular attacks require a lot of micro-management.  It SHOULD require a lot of skill to counter a strategy that requires a lot of skill to pull off in the first place.

   I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with this statement. First off, you are using a type of Generex that takes a lot of reduced damage from what you're facing which means that you have a lot of time to "attack, cloak, and retreat." In fact its so EASY and requires virtually no skill or response time and you also have the combat cloak with Spectres!!!  . You are right that it should require a lot of skill to counter a strat that requires a lot of skill, but as many would agree, spamming Generexes requires no skill.

    Back in 3.1.2, Mort and I had a romulan vs romulan match. I destroyed his base, fleet, shipyards, and all of his minning, but he had managed to save his two constructors and build a couple shipyards, and managed to get 8-10 generex frigates. Not only did it pwn my laheavals, Ceahlars, and warbirds without a single loss.

Second, I actually oppose the removal of shield recharge in the next patch (Says the guy who plays only Romulans)  Early game, Romulans can cloak and run but once you reach a certain number of ships in the battle (or vs borg, they get nanites) it becomes 100% useless as a strategy.  You can no longer cloak and run, and ship-for-ship your fleet costs more than the enemy.  Shield recharge introduces a mid/late game ability to augment and even replace the heavy cloaking you've been doing all through the beginning.

Shield recharge is something that can never truly be balanced as it makes you virtually invincible. If you want ships that have good staying power, use the laehval special, or better yet, scout your enemy and stop him from teching to cubes!

2 things I want to mention:

Limiting 6 support generix makes it EXTREMELY effective for a small gang of ships, but still isn't overpowered in a large fleet.  Just snipe them, or disable them, or deal enough damage to overwhelm them, and the romulans have to take a few minutes to reproduce them.

Whatever new ability you add, I hope it is related to 'saving' a single ship, or at least boosting Romulans' large fleet performance.  No buffs/damage that only affect a limited number of ships, I'd rather have a weak ability that hits EVERYBODY in its area of effect.

How does one snipe a ship that's basically invincible? And you issue with saving ships doesn't makes sense to me as the Romulans have a two second cloak and an extremely high system value ^^

posted on July 26th, 2010, 7:37 am

Imo a minelayer is a good concept for the Support Refit. It can be used to raise defense abilities of exps and main base while allowing other ships to be more offensive. I hope the mines will not be cleared as easy as one can do now...

posted on July 26th, 2010, 6:37 pm

Actually on almost every vessel period, even Monsoons have torpedoes as an ability and Sabers would have torpedoes if they were exactly like canon.

Better late than never, but just wanted to clarify this - Special Weapons that aren't explicitly called torpedoes in their effect do not behave as such. For instance, the Silent Resolve torpedo counts as a torpedo so gets damage reduction. Proximity Torpedo or Homing Torpedo do not count as torpedoes I recall, so does not get a damage reduction

posted on July 26th, 2010, 6:40 pm

When 6-8 ships count as 'spam' something is WRONG.

That's not spam.  15-30?  That's spam.  When a filled out fleet comes at you, all Generix or Akira...that's spam.  A small strike force, however, is not spam.  Yeesh.

Someone should spam K'ting'a and see how much screaming happens at this.

Yes, I'm cranky about that, but the short-term duration of most of these online games is redefining spam to mean something that in the RTS context it most definately does not.  It'd be like redefining a beeftip as a steak.

gotta agree here

but also i gotta say that the shield recharge is a problem, but as far i know its gonna be replaced someday.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 7:38 pm

Attachments

posted on August 6th, 2010, 7:43 pm

Hey.  At least he built a Serkas and a Rhienn, as well.  Just think of how many more Generixes could have been built if he hadn't needed to replace all those lost miners.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 7:50 pm

posted on August 6th, 2010, 8:01 pm

Shield recharge is something that can never truly be balanced as it makes you virtually invincible. If you want ships that have good staying power, use the laehval special, or better yet, scout your enemy and stop him from teching to cubes!

IMO this problem can be solved in ways other than just removing the special. At first, make the energy storages of the generix lower. While 6 generix momentarily can hold off any fire from your fleet for quarter of a minute against a typical medium mid game fleet, a time which allows you to escape pretty successfully OR decimate the enemy fleet (I really dislike this, as it is open battle and thats not the romulan way). Reduce the energy storages and they will not grant invulnerbility fo such a long time any more, reduce the effectiveness to make the inulnerability be breakable even in the process of recharging.

But I peronally would like to see the recharger be moved to a turret. The offeensive fleet support should be realized trough a minelayer building up traps for enemies fleets.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 8:13 pm

But I peronally would like to see the recharger be moved to a turret. The offeensive fleet support should be realized trough a minelayer building up traps for enemies fleets.

  I would not mind seeing a weak version of the shield Recharger added to the Singularity Transmitter.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 8:14 pm

Perhaps as part of a refit or the prefab weapons upgrade.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 9:02 pm

If it used it on the little rommie turrets, that would actually make it really cool.  A nice swamp to mire your enemies in while you move your fleet to cut off their escape and then close the trap on them.

posted on August 6th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Nah, Shield Recharge goes bye bye . Good RIDDANCE!