Generix - once more

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 11:51 am

So after playing Federation or Borg for the last dozen of games...and using Warbirds, and almost always Mijural as Rom people still blame me of "spamming" Generix only...I mean 6 Frigates and 3 Supports against a Fleet of Vorchas and Qads only is of course spam...because the ships are so uber OP...

So anyone has an Idea how to make Generix less attractive? Maybe increase buildtime to 2min? Or increase cost to 1000 Dil? Any suggestions? Something must be done because I want to use Generix but dont want to be accused spamming them "every time" oO

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 3:22 pm

I've heard that shield recharge on Generix will disappear next patch (someone on Tunngle said that that's what Dominus said), and they actually got a good nerf this patch. Supports shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Frigates are not OP, they are quit weak to Feds, Borg, and pretty much anything that's not a Destroyer. If people cannot counter Frigate/Support, they deserve to get those units spammed at them.

I do consider 6 frigates and 3 supports spam, but I do not think it is OP spam. There is nothing wrong with spam as long as the ship being spammed (in this case Generix, and yes I do count all refits together as one ship type) is easily countered.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 3:37 pm

I do consider 6 frigates and 3 supports spam

and yes I do count all refits together as one ship type

Following this logic, 6 Rhienns and 3 Leavhals are also Rhienn spam? Or what? The Frigates are Medium Cruisers and the 3 Sups are Medium Support Cruisers...you can barely say they are all the same...except for their range and size.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 3:46 pm

You should try reading what you quoted (by "refits" I mean those of the Generix, that part may have been a little vaguely worded.)

They all start out as the same ship and get somewhat modified, but they are all the same Generix right down to it, if there weapon ranges, ship sizes, or weapon types were drastically changed I would consider them seperate, but they're all medium-ranged, medium-sized, beam-shooting (Frigate has the projectiles, but it still has the beam as its main weapon) Generix. Actually by my logic: Rhienn+Leahval=not Rhienn spam, Rhienn Disruptor Refit+Rhienn Torpedo Refit=Rhienn spam.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 3:53 pm

Spam itself is nothing bad as the Generix Support is limited already, it shouldn't be much of a problem

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 4:37 pm

The issue is mostly against Feds now, as the Spectre's can very easily survive early Federation weapons and cloak-retreat.

  The real reason I've seen this as a problem is because they basically don't lose ANYTHING during the early stages of the game.  Strong hull, torpedo/pulse resistance, 2-second cloak = not gonna die until mid game.  This means that, if a person continues to just pump out specs (i.e, spam) they will hit a critical mass of them that can overcome the shortcomings of the Spec itself (slow speed, pulse armed).


  I don't really care though at this point.  Build your specs all you want .

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 4:46 pm

The issue is mostly against Feds now

This is due to the fact that Fed relies on Torps on almost every bigger vessel...I would call this a faction- based advantage or disadvantage.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 4:47 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 23rd, 2010, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I suggested in another thread recently (tho as an afterthought compared to my main idea) that the Spectre's shield passive could make it weak to pulses. May not be all that great since Feds are a bit lacking in pulses, but maybe that could be changed.
If a big pulse weakness (takes 40% more damage from pulses) and a small beam weakness (maybe 15% more damage from beams) were put together, the Canaveral might become a nice counter to Spectres, and Monsoon/Saber/Norway would do a little better than they do now.

This is due to the fact that Fed relies on Torps on almost every bigger vessel...I would call this a faction- based advantage or disadvantage.

Actually on almost every vessel period, even Monsoons have torpedoes as an ability and Sabers would have torpedoes if they were exactly like canon.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 4:58 pm

To be honest, I think the solution is to defend yourself when people say you spammed generix.  I fought a 5-man FFA where I built some 30 spectres and nobody criticized me (although admittedly the fed player built 20 phaser platforms, the dom player teched HSA right away, the borg player went straight for cubes, and the klinks made nothing but vorcha and neghvars )

Generix are fleet ships, you have to make a fleet of them.  Just because most races have more than one fleet ship while the romulans only have refits of the same ship, doesn't mean our fleets are cheap or unimaginative.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:07 pm

There are counters, so use them. Doesn't matter if you can cloak retreat if you'll kill all your opponent's  (exceedingly weak) miners in the meantime.

Furthermore considering that Intrepids can go toe to toe with Spectre right now, and you'll get out more Intrepid than Spectre - not to mention that Intrepids and Monsoons are both much faster and can actually retreat from Spectre - you should be able to use these skills to your advantage as well. Cloak retreat is fine and good - so is running away at 40-50 speed faster.

As for the statement that feds are so torpedo heavy - so are Dominion and TaQ'roka Klingons, yet nobody is complaining about them here.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:25 pm

I'm having a hard enough time winning consistently with the Romulans as-is....let's not make it any harder please. 

Don't forget that there are less skilled players coming up in the ranks, that may rely heavily on one particular Starship more than others....because they are familiar with how they work with the AI over others.

If someone has a problem with "spam" address it in-game, rather than asking for the developers to make changes that affect the whole community.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:28 pm

As for the statement that feds are so torpedo heavy - so are Dominion and TaQ'roka Klingons, yet nobody is complaining about them here.

  There are plenty of Beam-based ships as well .

  KBQ and Vorcha are excellent counterweights early-mid game .

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:30 pm

Yup, and funny how Feds have access to plenty of beam based ships too

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:33 pm

Well ... early on, the only pure Beam ships are Sabers and Monsoons.

  I've tested Sabers (both Avvies) against Specs and they did better than expected, but ultimately couldn't handle it once the Specs reached a certain number.  They also NEVER managed to destroy a single one based on the fact their damage output is too low to kill before cloak.

  Haven't tested Monsoons .  Perhaps a nice mix of Monsoons and Sabers would do quit well.  Though I have to say that every other feasible ship to build as Risner early on is mostly Torp .  Mayson can throw down Norways and both Canaverals have pulses, but both are too expensive for too little counter in my opinion .

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 5:40 pm

And Norways. Intrepids still are neither counter nor anti-counter to Spectre. The Intrepids just work exceedingly well against Spectre early on due to the speed and 'equality of passives' 

You can also go straight with Monsoons and EIIs and maybe you'll pleasantly be surprised as well.