Fed warp in - too many powerful ships too soon?

posted on May 28th, 2009, 4:03 am

kobayashi maru anyone?

Some of you are still thinking about the Warp-In incorrectly though: even though the ships are technically free, they are factored into the game balancing. In other words, this means that without the Warp-In, the Feds would have no backbone. If this still isn't clear, the Warp-In's provide the Federation with their early game fleet building skills: losing Warp-Ins is still like losing any other ships--don't let the timer fool you: they still cost something even if it doesn't seem like its dilithium, tritanium, or supply (plus, the first warp-in costs 800 dilithium 400(?) tritanium  )

posted on May 28th, 2009, 2:38 pm

Oh and serp: Them sending ships to die is more against the fed philosphy, maybe thats bothering me a bit. Though they dont do much with that. I agree that it is stupid.
Maybe a way to fix that if the team changes the warpin so they cant send the ships to a place on the map where fog of war is present, maybe only in your direct sensor range. That would make more sense, since this is supposed to be a last resort help from the federation and not a frontline suicide attack force.

I like the idea of warping in behind enemy lines.
If playing as feds, I love drawing their fleets with a warp in. As their ships divert, I move in to hit them from the front.....

It is helpful mid-late game to have such distractions as warping behind lines can be used properly late-mid game, when we have the fleets to use this tactically. Hence I am for reducing cool down to get the additional support in that timeframe.
Early in game if the other guy drops the ball and leaves his mining unattended, warp in at the mines is a perfect penalty.
But if he has spent on ships and turrets to repel such an attack, early in game since the warp in is free, a longer cool down would be in order to retain cause and effect principles.

Mid-late game is faster in pace, and hence reduced cool down time (given slower akira etc build times) would be helpful - from a gameplay perspective.


Since I dont like playing as feds, I actually don't care either way.

[KL0K]

posted on June 28th, 2009, 5:15 pm

Last edited by KL0K on June 28th, 2009, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

so.. after another dozens of games with ppl trying the warprush mining harrasment, this is really ticking me off, cause if you dont build instantly a reasonable force, you're totally screwed, cause they shoot the miners and its station to pieces without any chance to protect them.

i consider this a serious and major issue now.

PS: i'll play against the AI till its fixed...

posted on June 28th, 2009, 5:58 pm

Warp-in = 3 ships, long cooldown time, only sent where you have been = minor concern.

Dominion kamikazying your construction ships and miners as soon as the game starts is a lot more annoying than Warp-In.

posted on June 28th, 2009, 6:17 pm

not really, cause warp in = no costs. so the moment you got rid of them and build enough ships to start harrassing him, the whole situation starts all over again. and if you start building turrets, they send them elsewhere (like the other side of the moon or a different location)...

while the dominion need a constant flow of ressources to do this kamikazying stuff, plus everything is a onehit and nothing left.

for real man... only solution seems to be a small map, so you can send in ships early enough to cross this strategy

posted on June 28th, 2009, 6:25 pm

Dominion Bug: No prototype or research needed, available from the start and capable of getting a small fleet in the time it takes for the Warp-In to cool down. Also not limited.

Warp-In: Long cooldown time, random with mostly weak ships, very limited. Both a Research station and a type of yard to build the station in the first place.

posted on June 28th, 2009, 7:52 pm

and while the dom player sends bugships to your mining, the feds one is already at the other mining or shooting the bugs to pieces due to long distance of excellsiors or sabres..

posted on June 28th, 2009, 10:07 pm

Well, thats because you try to protext your mining stations and ships, right? You expand in normal ways inside your frontline and dont let mining stations be your frontline.

In the early game you try to expand your arms of influence but only have a few ships to protect or attack enemy bases. And when you manage to destroy a mining station of your opponent or to destroy their mining ships you have the upper hand. So you have to try that THIS wont happen.

The federation and the dominion have both no cloaking device (puretech) so you cant launch suprise attacks if you have a frontline that deals with invaders. In my eyes, I dont see a problem, its all about tactic and strategy. Bug are easy to destroy but deal a vast amount of damage if they hit a ship with its collision. On the other hand you have your warp in vessels that can easily be taken down with bugs.

posted on June 28th, 2009, 10:40 pm

At the moment I see all the factions but Dominion as the most balanced they have ever been since release. The only thing about Dominion that is unbalanced is the ability to knock out your opponent's construction ships within the first 2 minutes of the game... and that is pretty easily fixed in my opinion

posted on June 29th, 2009, 12:34 am

I have an idea. Be domminion and ram their ships 

posted on June 29th, 2009, 12:49 am

Gah, I hate you for that .  They need to fix that, because it works all too well.  All my Ships...Gone...*Shivers*

posted on June 29th, 2009, 1:21 am

I never understood why people demand things to be fixed that they think is broken, and then refuse to play if it isnt. Adapt your strategy, why you don't have defenses at important front line mining bases is beyond me, especially if you are playing bigger maps. I personally think that the warp in ability is perfectly fine as is, and people just need to learn to suck it up and rethink what they're doing instead of whining about how the tried and true ways dont work anymore.

List of counters for Fed warp-in:
Klingons, bop spam+cap ships=free ships for klings
Romulan, rhienns+cloak+multi disruptor hit=dead ships
Borg, sheer firepower+massive crew numbers=free ships
Dominion, bug spam+ramming=dead ships
Fed, use a couple of sabres to guard your bases, then hit their mining with a warp in, the saber should be able to take down the shields, in which case, start capping.

IMHO, a warp in just screams "hi thar! heres 3 ships for free! enjoy!", so, i dont think it should be changed but thats just me

edit: NEVER leave front line mining undefended, turrets or at least a pair of ships are needed, along with a scout on the big maps to ensure you dont get obliterated.

posted on June 29th, 2009, 1:26 am

Yes warp in is perfectly fine: I can counter it with any faction and not cripple myself... so if one person can do it, I don't see why that makes it an impossible strategy to beat 

posted on June 29th, 2009, 1:30 am

If you feel brave, greet their early efforts at your mining expansion by building a starbase instead of mining there.  Put in the mining afterwards, and cackle as their early ships are eaten alive by the base.  Upgrade it's offense and it's a hard target to bring down for quite a while.  Limits your offensive ability, but makes it very hard to take away your mining.

[KL0K]

posted on June 29th, 2009, 2:00 am

Last edited by KL0K on June 29th, 2009, 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

the real problem i have with this is the no cost vs cost, plus used on bigger maps than 2player.
its true, the warpins are the backbone of the feds, to get a foot in while waiting for the bigger ships, but if you'r dom and they constantly throw ships at you it is eating up the economy, while the feds one can still build ships since its not interfering the building order in any way. plsu, the ability to throw them in anywhere you want as long as you can see the spot.
so if you dont get a chance to safe some bugships to hit the oponents mining badly, to stop this after some time, the fed player just overruns your base...
and this is how i find myself screwed every fricken time. no matter how aggressive i play on a map like that, the very moment i have my first bugships out so i could deal enough damage somewhere (like 2 or 3) and am half the way to his base - the mining station is nearly gone, and if the fed is building a few ships in the meantime to intercept the bugs i threw at him.. tell me, how shall i counter that? when i dont ram the ships, trying to get through to the station, they get shot to pieces, when i ram the ships i lost them and he still has the warpin ones (making the sitation at the mining even worse), if i try to safe them and trying to minize the losses at the mining hitting them, hes still able to build a reasonable force to throw them at me.

so, where is the big fault here, if you all think its okay how it is.
maybe its the missing guide, so i didnt recognize a thing, but since you say its all good, give an advice pretty please.