Fed warp in - too many powerful ships too soon?

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:46 pm

I would hate having artillery range starbases: essentially that would defeat the purpose of making many turrets as well as making artillery useless. Likewise for any of the "armed bases" I have this response: if this is designed to counter only the supposedly overpowered warp in, then what will these ideas do against the supposedly underpowered other factions' destroyers? Right.

In many respects, the argument that warp-on rules the game's opening is like arguing that Rhienn's rule the beginning of the game, or that an early Borg Sphere rules the beginning... et cetera. If anything needs to be done, Mark's slight cooldown increase makes the most sense.

I surly do not insist on artillary range starbases, not at all. It was just one example of how the rushings, all rushing including rhienn rushs too could be softened a little. All concerns in this games are how to make the fastest and deadliest rush.

I personally dislike the total rushing focus of the game, which get's stronger with every patch. I would appreciate just any technques to soften the early game again.

In settlers3 we had the patriotic men have a defense bonus when inside their land's borders. This is just another nonviable solution for this game, but you may get, what behaviour i'd prefer.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:05 pm

You could also try a turret or two at outcast expansions

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:14 pm

I will give it a try.

But as far as I have watched, the most experienced players do not rely on turrets but rush the enemy, leaving the own base uncovered. These an-eye-for-an-eye-tactics are the most common playing style yet, and I do it this way myself too, because any time I try something different i get awefully crushed. 

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:17 pm

That's not true at all Mimesot (imo): most players that I consider good do rely on a few turrets at their own expansions, and then rush so they protect in their absence 

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:33 pm

If anything needs to be done, Mark's slight cooldown increase makes the most sense.

Mark's increase>?

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:42 pm

That's not true at all Mimesot (imo): most players that I consider good do rely on a few turrets at their own expansions, and then rush so they protect in their absence 

Do they?  I don't play online every day, but often enough to belive that, what I could consider my observations as mean value. The only turrets I ever came across were federation torpedo turrets in end game and very seldomly dominion turrets. Most interesting.

I come to the conclusion that all the good payers are hiding their turrets from me!  Probably i will come across some turrets this weeknd.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 8:53 pm

Sorry Serpicus, I had been talking about this with Mark a few weeks ago, and I guess I just thought he had posted that here too   

Naa, end game doesn't cut it. I'm talking building a defense turret before even building a mining station at your expansion point 

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:01 pm

Well as i said, I'll give it a try next time we meet.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:15 pm

Just want to add something else to this. The idea that starbases would get arty range would not solve this at all. No body rushes your main base with warp-ins, to do so would be suicide. What they attack is mining expansions, which can be defended with either ships or turrets.
Remember that your fighting near your base and you can basically go repair a ship when you see its shields are failing and you will keep building ships so you will outnumber them quickly.

About the warpin spam, well I havent noticed it yet, its cooldown is quite long as it is. Though I agree its annoying to have ships just pop-up at your mining when your not paying attention. Though that can be countered by turrets and with a little "homeland security" force

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:20 pm

spam not in the sense of numbers. spam in the sense of sending ships w/o any tactics or strategy.. just send them to die against canons cos they are free, and the other guy will not have enough ships at the outset to make this tactical blunder count.
hence die cos ure free and whileu do just bug the other guy.

this is what i meant when i used to word "spam".

and again we are deviating from the actual intent of the thread.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Since you don't often get very good ships (mostly Steamrunner or Excelsior), Warp-In shouldn't be much of a problem.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:44 pm

Just want to add something else to this. The idea that starbases would get arty range would not solve this at all. No body rushes your main base with warp-ins, to do so would be suicide. What they attack is mining expansions, which can be defended with either ships or turrets. Remember that your fighting near your base and you can basically go repair a ship when you see its shields are failing and you will keep building ships so you will outnumber them quickly.

Well that artillary range idea was definitly not one of my best.

Concerning the repair thing: The internet's network delay is my problem when being attacked by borg assimilators. It is very diffivult to micro then. Even if I retreat with a vessel in the moment of being attacked, I often cannot escape far enough before running out od crew. This the mein reason, why I am calling for some more defensive features in early game. But I don't wanna drift away. This is no borg thread.

IMO the feds are not overpowered. A slight increase of the warpin-duration in early game would make things much easier. Then feds are perfectly balanced again.

@Tyler:
Also steamrunners can save your ass, especially when borgies occur.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 10:27 pm

Well borg are a different animal all-together But with federation warp-in force I think if you order your ship to repair when its shields are at, like, 20% it should get itself to the yards without being destroyed.

Though you are right, micro is a bitch when the game lags


Oh and serp: Them sending ships to die is more against the fed philosphy, maybe thats bothering me a bit. Though they dont do much with that. I agree that it is stupid.
Maybe a way to fix that if the team changes the warpin so they cant send the ships to a place on the map where fog of war is present, maybe only in your direct sensor range. That would make more sense, since this is supposed to be a last resort help from the federation and not a frontline suicide attack force.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 10:34 pm

Well borg are a different animal all-together But with federation warp-in force I think if you order your ship to repair when its shields are at, like, 20% it should get itself to the yards without being destroyed.

Though you are right, micro is a bitch when the game lags


Oh and serp: Them sending ships to die is more against the fed philosphy, maybe thats bothering me a bit. Though they dont do much with that. I agree that it is stupid.
Maybe a way to fix that if the team changes the warpin so they cant send the ships to a place on the map where fog of war is present, maybe only in your direct sensor range. That would make more sense, since this is supposed to be a last resort help from the federation and not a frontline suicide attack force.

Except for the Descent class and hopefully whatever new experimental warp-in the dev team has in store for us. Those are definately advanced front-line warships, not necessarily a last resort...

posted on May 28th, 2009, 12:06 am

But the idea for warp-in is that it is a distress call.