Fed warp in - too many powerful ships too soon?

posted on May 25th, 2009, 5:26 pm

I prefer any feature that strengthens a racs uniqueness. Getting strong ships at the beginning of the game for free counts to those. Now it mustn't unbalance the game. Two solutions are available. The easier one is nerfing the feature, the better one would be a countermeasure for each other race. For the later one I would suggest defensive otions for each race.

Klingons could have an armed mining station. Romulan mining station has a sensorjammer, the dominion could probably get a docking bay for kamikaze-fighters, feds could have a point defense laser, and the borg a preinstalled holdingbeam.

On the other side this would overthrow the an-eye-for-an-eye-tactics, we got so used to. Well they gotovertrowed with the borg-assim-rush in 3.0.6 anyway.

[Darthashur]

posted on May 25th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Last edited by Darthashur on May 25th, 2009, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Will there be more options for experimental warp-in anytime soon ? (and no, i hate the Prometheus and everything else with totally useless separation modes, so please something else)  :sweatdrop:

BTW, i know it´s off-topic but i spotted a mod so i had to throw in the question, sorry. 

posted on May 25th, 2009, 5:57 pm

yep another experimental vessel is on todo, and it wont be the prometheus 

posted on May 25th, 2009, 5:57 pm

why do we all hate the prometheus so 


still sounds interesting though 

posted on May 25th, 2009, 7:24 pm

yep another experimental vessel is on todo, and it wont be the prometheus 

Yeah, that made my day. 

posted on May 25th, 2009, 7:25 pm

 I for one don't think that warp-in is unbalanced. If this would be the case, people would complain that feds wins the games right from the start, whitch is not the case. Without the warp-in, feds wouldn't be able to resist a borg early rush with just one assimilator. Serpicus knows that. Early on, feds can't get a decent ships (akira class) without building the engeneering and research two tiers witch are expensive. And with the norway nerfed...

posted on May 25th, 2009, 9:14 pm

Galefury, you are pretty right thet the feds would stand no chance against the borgs power rush without warpin. The vessels have good crew so don't get assimilated too easily. But IMO both, the borg and the feds rule the early game too much. Well playd feds could do this in 3.0.5 too.

The game was not very fault tolerant in 3.0.5, still allowed recovery. In 3.0.6, whith all these powerhorses at the beginning, the fault tolerance shrinked IMO down to zero (at least in 1vs1). It is a balancing issue, not to balance between races only, but also balance the results of collisions different stages. At the moment a single conflict turns the tide forever, if the players are descent. I would prefer a softening of early game.

I also believe that the feds should not have warpin as one of several optional strategies. Now, but also in 3.0.5 warpin was the only garant for success, as far as I can tell. The borg rely on a single strategy as well since 3.0.6, namly starting with assims and assim beams and not loosing one. So I would also lik to seee a strengthening on secondary strategies.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:54 am

I don´t know if it´s possible, but maybe the cooldown could drop from a higher starting value to the normal cooldown by itself, i hate when everything costs resources. 

Or maybe an experience system for SFC like the Romulan Spy Station, and with each rank it gets, the cooldown is lowered. (SFC could also gain a small weapon on officer rank but that´s another thing...).
You could remove experimental warp-in from SFC as long as it hasn´t reached a certain rank.

Really digging this idea actually... Why dont you guys add ranks to shipyards and such too?

posted on May 27th, 2009, 9:02 am

yep another experimental vessel is on todo, and it wont be the prometheus 

Excellent. 

posted on May 27th, 2009, 10:37 am

Well IDK, warpin is really annoying at the beginning of the game but each race can resist it.

With feds you have a warpin of your own

With Roms the long range Rhienns can easily micro those ships to death, just keep chipping away at them and keep them out of range, if nothing else they will retreat.

With Klingons you have the Ktinga (its actually called something else but it looks like it anyway ) which is available to both avatars (its stats are like 19o 19d right now, which is huge for an early vessle) and with Martok you get Susa, amazing ship to fight bigger ships. And with TaqRoja you get the Artillery and you can micro the feds, the same way as with rommies

Borg have enough counters available right now

Dominion, with puretech, should have quite some bugs available by the time the feds come to your mining. Just engage the ships and when one of your ships is about to be destroyed ram one of the feds. Because ram now deals direct hull damage you can even destroy that ship in 1 hit. If you dont want to do that, you still have bombers to eat away at the larger Galaxy or other battleships.

As Optec said, it shouldnt be a problem right now, and its not  IMHO.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 6:58 pm

I concur with Baron: it is definitely annoying, but far from game ending--and certainly NOT unbeatable.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Who said it was unbeatable?

The topic starter didn's say so. I do neither, as I just say, that they rule the game's opening.

Nevertheless, who would agree to have mor defensive measures in the beginning? E.g. make tha starbase have artillary range? Self-defending extensions,...

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:17 pm

I would hate having artillery range starbases: essentially that would defeat the purpose of making many turrets as well as making artillery useless. Likewise for any of the "armed bases" I have this response: if this is designed to counter only the supposedly overpowered warp in, then what will these ideas do against the supposedly underpowered other factions' destroyers? Right.

In many respects, the argument that warp-on rules the game's opening is like arguing that Rhienn's rule the beginning of the game, or that an early Borg Sphere rules the beginning... et cetera. If anything needs to be done, Mark's slight cooldown increase makes the most sense.

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:20 pm

Artillery Starbase wouldn't make artillery turrets useless, the turrets are quicker and cheaper to build than a Starbase. You could get a lot more of them.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 27th, 2009, 7:26 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 27th, 2009, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

We may be catching the bull by the tail here.

the issue is not the ealy fed advantage. Of course i like the feds to have a warp in early in game. It adds spice. And as Baron clearly mentioned, there are counters.
But to have an advantage and squander it, and then to get it again and again is not strategy.

It is for this purpose that I was hoping for a more role specific implementation of warp in.

Warp in is supposed to act as a fleet support mechanism where u can get additional ships up tothe limit mentioned in order to bolster your fleet and of course attack or harass or whatever.

Early in game there are fewer ships. So a quicker warp in to compensate for losses after wasting ur first warp in, is superfluous and at times acts to encourage bad players to simply spam (not in the sense of excess numbers, but in the sense of using a feature w/o any strategy or tactics, just opportunism early on) warp ins at random map points just to harass.

those ships are quickly dispatched, but when early in game there is another and another in the same space of time, it tends to remove the relevance and importance of what warp in support actually signifies.

Also, with fed resource rquirements as well as normal build times, wapr ins later in game are needed in slighter quick succession than are currently enabled.

It is for this that I recommended an earlier extended delay in cool down, while an optimized delay in mid-late game.

That was all that this thread implied. Nothing related to balance and nothing related to excessive power at the outset....

hope this helped clarify the intent.