Klingon: Release the Dogs of War!
Share and discuss your gameplay strategies.
posted on January 8th, 2012, 3:01 am
Last edited by godsvoice on January 8th, 2012, 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Clarify some points of this strategy:
1) Main purpose is to prevent enemy expansions. Easily done before 200 seconds. Also, pick off miners where accessible. Only attack with kbeajq if you see a construction ship already at an expansion or enroute.
2) Include all ships in one fleet (a kbeajq fleet), but place scout in this fleet as well. The initial part of the attack is scout plus 2 kbeajq. Retreat or cloak scout if it is attacked.
3) Topmeys - Use Brel Spam Vs 2 example. First 2 topmeys go di and tri respectively. 3 fills up home di. 4th goes to expansion. Build a fifth for expansion as well. Halt build queue order after 4th kbeajq is under way. Have both di miners top up cargo for quick unload once refinery is built. It might take a few seconds. Once refinery is under way, unhalt queue order. You do not need to refill the tritanium yard to three miners until you start spamming out of three yards. First the field yard must go up. After you begin building the kbeajq extension, build an additional topmey for tri.
4) Ideal map, Duel II Klingons take centre di moon for expansion.
Good for now at least.
I dunno, I don't think it's as easy as 'yard and passive advantage'. It's 4 kbeajq at five min and a scout, which for Klingon is at least suggestive of something. I don't know exactly when you can get double intrepid build going, or have two intrepids out. But in the meantime, my kbeajq can definitely go after some miners.
But yes, more or less hypothetical. But I've played this quite a bit, and from my perspective, even if against AI only, it seems very strong. I just don't think one intrepid is that big a deal. Two kbeajq to start, with to more underway shortly, is something. If not, I suggest throwing some ktingas in there too. But the point is that I can completely stop any construction ship from leaving your home base. I would imagine. The ai is cheap for this, in that in sends out like 2 or three to every moon pair and I have to hunt down everything and destroy it. But still. I look forward to hearing about more games, hopefully.
Edit: So to be really specific. If you wanted a larger attack force. The two topmeys you send to the centre will gather 150 di each and wait for di refinery to be built, and then pop to ktinga. Cloak 2kbeajq and send them to enemy's left expansion. Take scout cloak and send it to the right expansion. Once the first two topmeys unload, pop them to ktingas. The third kbeajq will be shortly on its way. This is probably Klingon's player ideal aggressive attack. 3 kbeajq, 2 ktinga, and 1 scout. vs whatever federation can muster. Gather them at the the weakest point. If there are no expansions, invade feds home base. Uncloak on miner first to get quick kill. 6 ships have to work for something.
1) Main purpose is to prevent enemy expansions. Easily done before 200 seconds. Also, pick off miners where accessible. Only attack with kbeajq if you see a construction ship already at an expansion or enroute.
2) Include all ships in one fleet (a kbeajq fleet), but place scout in this fleet as well. The initial part of the attack is scout plus 2 kbeajq. Retreat or cloak scout if it is attacked.
3) Topmeys - Use Brel Spam Vs 2 example. First 2 topmeys go di and tri respectively. 3 fills up home di. 4th goes to expansion. Build a fifth for expansion as well. Halt build queue order after 4th kbeajq is under way. Have both di miners top up cargo for quick unload once refinery is built. It might take a few seconds. Once refinery is under way, unhalt queue order. You do not need to refill the tritanium yard to three miners until you start spamming out of three yards. First the field yard must go up. After you begin building the kbeajq extension, build an additional topmey for tri.
4) Ideal map, Duel II Klingons take centre di moon for expansion.
Good for now at least.
I dunno, I don't think it's as easy as 'yard and passive advantage'. It's 4 kbeajq at five min and a scout, which for Klingon is at least suggestive of something. I don't know exactly when you can get double intrepid build going, or have two intrepids out. But in the meantime, my kbeajq can definitely go after some miners.
But yes, more or less hypothetical. But I've played this quite a bit, and from my perspective, even if against AI only, it seems very strong. I just don't think one intrepid is that big a deal. Two kbeajq to start, with to more underway shortly, is something. If not, I suggest throwing some ktingas in there too. But the point is that I can completely stop any construction ship from leaving your home base. I would imagine. The ai is cheap for this, in that in sends out like 2 or three to every moon pair and I have to hunt down everything and destroy it. But still. I look forward to hearing about more games, hopefully.
Edit: So to be really specific. If you wanted a larger attack force. The two topmeys you send to the centre will gather 150 di each and wait for di refinery to be built, and then pop to ktinga. Cloak 2kbeajq and send them to enemy's left expansion. Take scout cloak and send it to the right expansion. Once the first two topmeys unload, pop them to ktingas. The third kbeajq will be shortly on its way. This is probably Klingon's player ideal aggressive attack. 3 kbeajq, 2 ktinga, and 1 scout. vs whatever federation can muster. Gather them at the the weakest point. If there are no expansions, invade feds home base. Uncloak on miner first to get quick kill. 6 ships have to work for something.
posted on January 8th, 2012, 6:47 pm
godsvoice wrote:MrXT you lack imagination. I mostly posted it because of 2 K'beajq with a very fast uptime. And you can use them against any opponent who tries to expand too early. And you can expand yourself quite easily. You can time it so that your constructor has two escorts to the centre moon of Duel II. Then you can attack any expansion under way. Or, since Duel II as a wide initial moon pair, you can attack those. (Did you see the part where it says elegant in its simplicity? I never claimed 1 kbeajq, 2 kbeajq, 3-4 kbeajq was a breakthrough, but it is fast)
I lack imagination lol? erm your the one suggesting spamming a single unit type as an awesome strategy.
Not only is spamming 1 type of unit stupid for counter reasons but its also boring.
posted on January 8th, 2012, 7:34 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on January 8th, 2012, 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MrXT wrote:Intrepids would win this because they take reduced damage from medium ranged units.
I also dont really understand why you bothered to post such a stupid boring strategy in the first place.... step 1 build a k'beq... step 2 build another k'beq step 3 - 4003298309820 build more k'beqs ..... yes well done i see you have thought this through very well.
In this post you state Intrepids flat win because of reduced damage against medium ranged units.
Then you claim it is a stupid boring strategy because it only builds Kbeajqs.
With: why did you even bother posting it.
You lack imagination because instead of looking at an idea and trying to make it work -seeing its potential, you just attempt to refute it.
To make an accurate claim on this strategy, try playing it first. I want a video of you playing Klingons against Feds with this. lol Don't worry... you'll win. I just want to see it for kicks.
Let's look at content here though:
1) spams one unit: you are free to use your scout, and some K'tingas. Beyond this, I only described what would in effect be the first 5-7 min of this strategy. Feel free to expand and build Qawduj or whatever you would like after that time frame (In case you missed it, that's the entire point, your opponent can not expand but you can! then you do whatever you want, build whatever you want). If I could start a game building brels, kvorts, kbeajqs, qawduj, and vorcha in the first 3 min of a game, believe you me him her I would do so. But that's not really practical is it? Why do you make such pointless objections. (There are sections in the guide that outline spams, yes? i.e. brel spam. there are even two versions of it) Finally, if you're really that picky. Make the third central yard a bird of prey extension. Get some kvorts and brels in there too.
2) Intrepid Counter: You are right I hadn't considered that at all... I thought a passive was a reduction/increase in percentage of damage taken or given, but I guess it means that Intrepid's one shot all my Kbeajqs and it is utterly hopeless. I suppose I should wait until I can build large battleships before I even consider facing down an intrepid. They are so powerful. If you read the thread... I outnumber pesky intrepids. I'll have six ships in no time. They can cloak too.
3) The strategy isn't boring or stupid. It wins. There aren't exactly huge options in the beginning of games. You build your first yard. You build refineries. You build miners. You build first tier vessels. What are you complaining about? Double yarding I know is not a new idea. I pointed it out because it wasn't in the guide. And it's strong. So while I did not blatantly request it be added... I simply posted to see if people would play it. And then it might get added.
4) Based on other responses to this thread, it seems like the idea clearly as some potential function.
There was some sarcasm in all of that, but no real insults. If you want to just be straightforward about it fine. Yes, it spams a single unit, and yes it is an awesome strategy. The counter in my view would be entirely ineffective. Show me a video that demonstrates otherwise. As for the boring part... that is personal interpretation. Again, I only have first tier vessels to choose from. Is that boring? Is it mandatory that Klingons build from two different field yard extensions right at the beginning? Build six Kbeajq. Then build whatever you want. Pop some miners, and waste resources early on with a bird of prey extension... despite having two kbeajq extensions right there ready to go.
But lacks imagination I thought was being nice but to the point. Because clearly you aren't imagining this scenario very well. Because it works quite well, and if you haven't tried it, I highly doubt you know for certain that intrepids block it. It's a good strategy.
posted on January 8th, 2012, 7:50 pm
godsvoice wrote:In this post you state Intrepids flat win because of reduced damage against medium ranged units.
Then you claim it is a stupid boring strategy because it only builds Kbeajqs.
With: why did you even bother posting it.
You lack imagination because instead of looking at an idea and trying to make it work -seeing its potential, you just attempt to refute it.
To make an accurate claim on this strategy, try playing it first. I want a video of you playing Klingons against Feds with this. lol Don't worry... you'll win. I just want to see it for kicks.
Let's look at content here though:
1) spams one unit: you are free to use your scout, and some K'tingas. Beyond this, I only described what would in effect be the first 5-7 min of this strategy. Feel free to expand and build Qawduj or whatever you would like after that time frame (In case you missed it, that's the entire point, your opponent can not expand but you can! then you do whatever you want, build whatever you want). If I could start a game building brels, kvorts, kbeajqs, qawduj, and vorcha in the first 3 min of a game, believe you me him her I would do so. But that's not really practical is it? Why do you make such pointless objections. (There are sections in the guide that outline spams, yes? i.e. brel spam. there are even two versions of it) Finally, if you're really that picky. Make the third central yard a bird of prey extension. Get some kvorts and brels in there too.
2) Intrepid Counter: You are right I hadn't considered that at all... I thought a passive was a reduction/increase in percentage of damage taken or given, but I guess it means that Intrepid's one shot all my Kbeajqs and it is utterly hopeless. I suppose I should wait until I can build large battleships before I even consider facing down an intrepid. They are so powerful. If you read the thread... I outnumber pesky intrepids. I'll have six ships in no time. They can cloak too.
3) The strategy isn't boring or stupid. It wins. There aren't exactly huge options in the beginning of games. You build your first yard. You build refineries. You build miners. You build first tier vessels. What are you complaining about? Double yarding I know is not a new idea. I pointed it out because it wasn't in the guide. And it's strong. So while I did not blatantly request it be added... I simply posted to see if people would play it. And then it might get added.
4) Based on other responses to this thread, it seems like the idea clearly as some potential function.
There was some sarcasm in all of that, but no real insults. If you want to just be straightforward about it fine. Yes, it spams a single unit, and yes it is an awesome strategy. The counter in my view would be entirely ineffective. Show me a video that demonstrates otherwise. As for the boring part... that is personal interpretation. Again, I only have first tier vessels to choose from. Is that boring? Is it mandatory that Klingons build from two different field yard extensions right at the beginning? Build six Kbeajq. Then build whatever you want. Pop some miners, and waste resources early on with a bird of prey extension... despite having two kbeajq extensions right there ready to go.
But lacks imagination I thought was being nice but to the point. Because clearly you aren't imagining this scenario very well. Because it works quite well, and if you haven't tried it, I highly doubt you know for certain that intrepids block it. It's a good strategy.
Oh jesus christ.....
Almost ANY ship you spam can do what you originally suggested kill miners, take out a construction ship... any ship you spam in excess can be quite effective but that doesn't involve any real strategy or thought out battle plans your just spamming.... its not exciting its not amazing and to some extend sure it will work but that doesn't make it good or reliable you need to mix fleets in order to truly be effective and i didn't say the intrepid's would flat out win but they sure as hell will be better against the k'beq than the k'beq will against them and if you have to keep falling back because the intrepids can easily fight you off then you are not going to be as effective as you seem to think.
So you can continue to believe that spamming k'beqs is going to win you a game or you can accept the fact that in order to win the end game and be more effective you will need to add various ships types into your fleet and not rely solely on k'beqs and not to just wait till you gain an advantage from spamming before you start building other types because if your against a decent enough player you wont gain an advantage untill you switch vessels.
If you think that this already known strategy...(altho i have a hard time calling it one) is so effective then come online and try it against me.
Nothing in your original post suggested anything other than k'beqs your whole strat is centered around double yarding k'beqs....
posted on January 8th, 2012, 8:18 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on January 8th, 2012, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You know I was slightly exaggerating? There was sarcasm with some of my points.
Internet is not good for tone of voice.
I'm not saying this strategy is unknown. I put in the original post that I didn't see it in the guide, so I posted it. With a good example of a map to use it on, and opponent. Federation.
I'm sure there are other strategies that work just as well. They have a lot of good strategies in the guide. This wasn't.
If it is already known... I figured someone would just say that and it either works or doesn't.
I described the strat in my original post based on what they write in the guide. I don't even remember what they are. It was special notes, and first build queue orders with the first couple structures. That's all I put, because how can I dictate when to start building battle yards, or expand to left and right expansions. I can't possibly know that, except for like 10-12 min, expand. But yeah, I'm not going to put it in the outline. Look to whatever extent we call it a strategy I don't care. But yes, it is two kbeajq yards.
This particular conversation doesn't seem to have any point though.
Why do you even post in threads you think are stupid, or lack so much in strategy (if just to point out that you think they are stupid and lack good strategy).
Sigh. It's kinda boring to have a thread like that, you realize?
Internet is not good for tone of voice.
I'm not saying this strategy is unknown. I put in the original post that I didn't see it in the guide, so I posted it. With a good example of a map to use it on, and opponent. Federation.
I'm sure there are other strategies that work just as well. They have a lot of good strategies in the guide. This wasn't.
If it is already known... I figured someone would just say that and it either works or doesn't.
I described the strat in my original post based on what they write in the guide. I don't even remember what they are. It was special notes, and first build queue orders with the first couple structures. That's all I put, because how can I dictate when to start building battle yards, or expand to left and right expansions. I can't possibly know that, except for like 10-12 min, expand. But yeah, I'm not going to put it in the outline. Look to whatever extent we call it a strategy I don't care. But yes, it is two kbeajq yards.
This particular conversation doesn't seem to have any point though.
Why do you even post in threads you think are stupid, or lack so much in strategy (if just to point out that you think they are stupid and lack good strategy).
Sigh. It's kinda boring to have a thread like that, you realize?
posted on January 8th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Sounds pretty sweet. I would love to see it in real life, I'll even play feds against you despite not being very good with them.
I think Redshirt made a good point though: lockdown strategies work in 1v1 games but are much, much harder in team games. A lot of people who complain about rushes don't realize this.
Also keep in mind, the enemy has the speed advantage so if he does get cloak detect he can get some good kills on you.
I think Redshirt made a good point though: lockdown strategies work in 1v1 games but are much, much harder in team games. A lot of people who complain about rushes don't realize this.
Also keep in mind, the enemy has the speed advantage so if he does get cloak detect he can get some good kills on you.
posted on January 8th, 2012, 11:54 pm
godsvoice wrote:This particular conversation doesn't seem to have any point though.
Why do you even post in threads you think are stupid, or lack so much in strategy (if just to point out that you think they are stupid and lack good strategy).
Sigh. It's kinda boring to have a thread like that, you realize?
The point is a forum is to discuss and forward your opinion, my opinion on this subject is that a tactic that involves spamming a single unit is just stupid and doesn't deserve a topic, maybe i should open a thread basically say the same stuff you did but for the romulans and describe how to leheaval spam... what this doesn't sound exciting? well now maybe you understand why i don't like to see a tactic posted that simply involves spamming 1 unit and then having the cheek to label it a strategy.
It is strats that involve nothing but spamming 1 unit that ruin the fun in an online game this is why i am so blunt. (not rude)
posted on January 9th, 2012, 2:56 am
For online gameplay, despite some effort, it doesn't seem to go. I have a refurbished older dell with increased ram and some other stuff. But something about tunggle or something doesn't jive with it. And I'm simply not a technician. The fact I even get around with downloading fleet ops and reinstalling and all is lucky.
I am very understanding for points made about team games, or other factions. Some were commenting about potential use for borg and romulans, but not dominion. Can't be perfect everywhere. But federation is in trouble in my view.
For cloak detect... I would suggest that whoever plays Klingon not go close to star base. Scout expansions, and home moons. Use kbeajqs, ktingas and scout if necessary. Just push.
MrXT there is strategy involved. If you know anything about chess, consider it your opening. That is strategy. I have pieces on a chess board, and units in fleetops. If I only develop my pawns in chess I die. For this, units are units, and while it may not be to your liking, it is certainly a strategy, undeniably. If you are having that big of an issue with 1 unit spam, limit yourself to building six kbeajq. Once that is over. Begin immediate expansion. Construct bird of prey yard at centre moon, and build what ever you want. Expand to a moon pair and go battle yard. I only need those early kbeajq to stop opponent's expansion, and lay siege to miners. After that, you can turn this into whatever you want.
Not only that, but there is much more involved in strategic planning than what units you use. It's how you occupy the space of the map, and how you order structures to be built, and the total time you need. This entire plan gets you two ships very quickly. Right at three min. I can't do that with a kbeajq and bird of prey extension, because it would take additional time to build the bird of prey after the kbeajq. I described two yards instantly from out of the star base. Followed by mining. There is no early research even possible. I take you right down to roughly 360 di or so, and even less tri. You then go to expansion. But strategy. You go to the centre. That's a purposeful act. And it strengthens the opening. You choose to pop ktingas for early raiding. All of these are choices that go with developing the strategy. Qawduj is actually a unit, in my opinion, that you really don't want here. That is strategy. Because normally you would build qawduj against intrepids, evidentally. So I'm giving alternative strategy where you face intrepids head on with just kbeajq, as an underdog, but I get you lots of ships for compensation. Like three pawns for a Knight, although that's roughly even depending. You are so strapped for tritanium you couldn't possibly get a qawduj. And it cost more di anyways. Not that it isn't feasible later on. By 10-12 minutes I predict you can do roughly whatever you please. To get there though, there are certain elements that need following.
I don't like seeing someone claiming to understand strategy only in the context of what units I choose to build in the first 5 min of my game. Ignoring my structure order, and expansion points. And reasons for suggesting this strat not in a generalist way, but specifically orientated for opponents ilke federation, and small maps like duel II, or blue skies.
I don't mind bluntness, but being to the point does not involve labelling things stupid. That's edging on rude. But I know plenty of people who use the word stupid meaninglessly so I honestly could care less. Essentially, you have your view and I have mine. In my view, your opposition to the word strategy, is in the context of online gaming and 1 unit spam, or about the complexity of a strategy at very best. You hardly use the genuine meaning of the word strategy at all. Your objection to me as nothing to do with strategy. I can't understand how you even hope to hold that in a discussion. It's entirely personal preference. And for that, I might even agree that one unit spam might not be ideal. But this is far from that. I'm talking six kbeajq. If that wasn't clear in the original post, the post wasn't that specific. Maybe people want to go to eight or ten kbeajq. I don't know. It's open for them to choose.
It would be nice to see more people post about actual results of a live game though... cause arguing like this doesn't really interest me very much. Normally, I wouldn't even care about these things anyways. I play AI. Uptime has much different meaning for me. 182 seconds was just for reference to guide. 182 seconds with two ships seemed pretty good. So again, I posted the strategy because I felt some merit in doing so. You can disagree, but statements like boring and stupid are fairly empty, and won't get a forum discussion very far. There is more than just forwarding your own opinion mind you. There is a social aspect presupposed in the idea of a 'forum' of multiple people.
I am very understanding for points made about team games, or other factions. Some were commenting about potential use for borg and romulans, but not dominion. Can't be perfect everywhere. But federation is in trouble in my view.
For cloak detect... I would suggest that whoever plays Klingon not go close to star base. Scout expansions, and home moons. Use kbeajqs, ktingas and scout if necessary. Just push.
MrXT there is strategy involved. If you know anything about chess, consider it your opening. That is strategy. I have pieces on a chess board, and units in fleetops. If I only develop my pawns in chess I die. For this, units are units, and while it may not be to your liking, it is certainly a strategy, undeniably. If you are having that big of an issue with 1 unit spam, limit yourself to building six kbeajq. Once that is over. Begin immediate expansion. Construct bird of prey yard at centre moon, and build what ever you want. Expand to a moon pair and go battle yard. I only need those early kbeajq to stop opponent's expansion, and lay siege to miners. After that, you can turn this into whatever you want.
Not only that, but there is much more involved in strategic planning than what units you use. It's how you occupy the space of the map, and how you order structures to be built, and the total time you need. This entire plan gets you two ships very quickly. Right at three min. I can't do that with a kbeajq and bird of prey extension, because it would take additional time to build the bird of prey after the kbeajq. I described two yards instantly from out of the star base. Followed by mining. There is no early research even possible. I take you right down to roughly 360 di or so, and even less tri. You then go to expansion. But strategy. You go to the centre. That's a purposeful act. And it strengthens the opening. You choose to pop ktingas for early raiding. All of these are choices that go with developing the strategy. Qawduj is actually a unit, in my opinion, that you really don't want here. That is strategy. Because normally you would build qawduj against intrepids, evidentally. So I'm giving alternative strategy where you face intrepids head on with just kbeajq, as an underdog, but I get you lots of ships for compensation. Like three pawns for a Knight, although that's roughly even depending. You are so strapped for tritanium you couldn't possibly get a qawduj. And it cost more di anyways. Not that it isn't feasible later on. By 10-12 minutes I predict you can do roughly whatever you please. To get there though, there are certain elements that need following.
I don't like seeing someone claiming to understand strategy only in the context of what units I choose to build in the first 5 min of my game. Ignoring my structure order, and expansion points. And reasons for suggesting this strat not in a generalist way, but specifically orientated for opponents ilke federation, and small maps like duel II, or blue skies.
I don't mind bluntness, but being to the point does not involve labelling things stupid. That's edging on rude. But I know plenty of people who use the word stupid meaninglessly so I honestly could care less. Essentially, you have your view and I have mine. In my view, your opposition to the word strategy, is in the context of online gaming and 1 unit spam, or about the complexity of a strategy at very best. You hardly use the genuine meaning of the word strategy at all. Your objection to me as nothing to do with strategy. I can't understand how you even hope to hold that in a discussion. It's entirely personal preference. And for that, I might even agree that one unit spam might not be ideal. But this is far from that. I'm talking six kbeajq. If that wasn't clear in the original post, the post wasn't that specific. Maybe people want to go to eight or ten kbeajq. I don't know. It's open for them to choose.
It would be nice to see more people post about actual results of a live game though... cause arguing like this doesn't really interest me very much. Normally, I wouldn't even care about these things anyways. I play AI. Uptime has much different meaning for me. 182 seconds was just for reference to guide. 182 seconds with two ships seemed pretty good. So again, I posted the strategy because I felt some merit in doing so. You can disagree, but statements like boring and stupid are fairly empty, and won't get a forum discussion very far. There is more than just forwarding your own opinion mind you. There is a social aspect presupposed in the idea of a 'forum' of multiple people.
posted on January 9th, 2012, 3:17 am
Last edited by Tryptic on January 9th, 2012, 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
I think this thread needs some of this:
Ahhhh, much better. If anybody's still mad after watching that then guess what, YOU HAVE NO SOUL.
I do think that this opening has merit, if you go and look at the guide you'll see that most of the openings are really simple because they're only meant to set up the player. In fact, there is one for Leahval spam there already. It doesn't have to be complex to be useful for new players.
Now, as for Tunngle not connecting... do you have access to your router config godsvoice? The setup should be pretty simple, Tunngle installs its own virtual adaptor and all you have to do is make sure the port is open and your firewall(s) have exceptions for the main tunngle executable. Maybe I could help troubleshoot on Teamspeak sometime, my college doesn't start up until next week.
Ahhhh, much better. If anybody's still mad after watching that then guess what, YOU HAVE NO SOUL.
I do think that this opening has merit, if you go and look at the guide you'll see that most of the openings are really simple because they're only meant to set up the player. In fact, there is one for Leahval spam there already. It doesn't have to be complex to be useful for new players.
Now, as for Tunngle not connecting... do you have access to your router config godsvoice? The setup should be pretty simple, Tunngle installs its own virtual adaptor and all you have to do is make sure the port is open and your firewall(s) have exceptions for the main tunngle executable. Maybe I could help troubleshoot on Teamspeak sometime, my college doesn't start up until next week.
posted on January 9th, 2012, 3:51 am
lol erg. I have no real router firewall understanding. Tunngle installs, then my computer thing pops up and says uninstall this now. More or less. Even when I ignore it, I still don't understand what to do. Also, my internet connection on the dell is not good at all. I have wi fi thing set up in it. But I dunno. I use macs. Thanks for the offer, but unless someone lives in Ontario Canada nearby, I'm afraid I'm not to up to speed in setting up. I don't know anything about teamspeak, and over the net communication for this stuff does not help me. I'm big time visual learner, but thanks for offering assistance.
In any case, I just thought I'd share it. But aside from Nerodan and whoever he had playing against him as Klingon, I'm not too sure just what the exact outcome of this is for multiplayer. 1vs1. But I thought I did a decent job of presenting it.
I was never mad. Just very few ways to respond to certain kinds of posts. All cheerful again, let the thread move on.
Klingon vs Federation. On your mark, get set, go!
In any case, I just thought I'd share it. But aside from Nerodan and whoever he had playing against him as Klingon, I'm not too sure just what the exact outcome of this is for multiplayer. 1vs1. But I thought I did a decent job of presenting it.
I was never mad. Just very few ways to respond to certain kinds of posts. All cheerful again, let the thread move on.
Klingon vs Federation. On your mark, get set, go!
posted on January 9th, 2012, 3:26 pm
godsvoice wrote:MrXT there is strategy involved. If you know anything about chess, consider it your opening. That is strategy. I have pieces on a chess board, and units in fleetops. If I only develop my pawns in chess I die. For this, units are units, and while it may not be to your liking, it is certainly a strategy, undeniably. If you are having that big of an issue with 1 unit spam, limit yourself to building six kbeajq. Once that is over. Begin immediate expansion. Construct bird of prey yard at centre moon, and build what ever you want. Expand to a moon pair and go battle yard. I only need those early kbeajq to stop opponent's expansion, and lay siege to miners. After that, you can turn this into whatever you want.
Not only that, but there is much more involved in strategic planning than what units you use. It's how you occupy the space of the map, and how you order structures to be built, and the total time you need. This entire plan gets you two ships very quickly. Right at three min. I can't do that with a kbeajq and bird of prey extension, because it would take additional time to build the bird of prey after the kbeajq. I described two yards instantly from out of the star base. Followed by mining. There is no early research even possible. I take you right down to roughly 360 di or so, and even less tri. You then go to expansion. But strategy. You go to the centre. That's a purposeful act. And it strengthens the opening. You choose to pop ktingas for early raiding. All of these are choices that go with developing the strategy. Qawduj is actually a unit, in my opinion, that you really don't want here. That is strategy. Because normally you would build qawduj against intrepids, evidentally. So I'm giving alternative strategy where you face intrepids head on with just kbeajq, as an underdog, but I get you lots of ships for compensation. Like three pawns for a Knight, although that's roughly even depending. You are so strapped for tritanium you couldn't possibly get a qawduj. And it cost more di anyways. Not that it isn't feasible later on. By 10-12 minutes I predict you can do roughly whatever you please. To get there though, there are certain elements that need following.
I don't like seeing someone claiming to understand strategy only in the context of what units I choose to build in the first 5 min of my game. Ignoring my structure order, and expansion points. And reasons for suggesting this strat not in a generalist way, but specifically orientated for opponents ilke federation, and small maps like duel II, or blue skies.
I don't mind bluntness, but being to the point does not involve labelling things stupid. That's edging on rude. But I know plenty of people who use the word stupid meaninglessly so I honestly could care less. Essentially, you have your view and I have mine. In my view, your opposition to the word strategy, is in the context of online gaming and 1 unit spam, or about the complexity of a strategy at very best. You hardly use the genuine meaning of the word strategy at all. Your objection to me as nothing to do with strategy. I can't understand how you even hope to hold that in a discussion. It's entirely personal preference. And for that, I might even agree that one unit spam might not be ideal. But this is far from that. I'm talking six kbeajq. If that wasn't clear in the original post, the post wasn't that specific. Maybe people want to go to eight or ten kbeajq. I don't know. It's open for them to choose.
It would be nice to see more people post about actual results of a live game though... cause arguing like this doesn't really interest me very much. Normally, I wouldn't even care about these things anyways. I play AI. Uptime has much different meaning for me. 182 seconds was just for reference to guide. 182 seconds with two ships seemed pretty good. So again, I posted the strategy because I felt some merit in doing so. You can disagree, but statements like boring and stupid are fairly empty, and won't get a forum discussion very far. There is more than just forwarding your own opinion mind you. There is a social aspect presupposed in the idea of a 'forum' of multiple people.
Of course there is more to strategy than just a counter but this is the most important thing in a strategy and you had no strategy what so ever you just picked a tank and thought yeah this is good.
I hate when someone like you thinks they can just pick a ship and spam it without even seeing what their opponent is building, you don't pick a ship purely for the sake of killing some miners and a construction ship.... not only do k'beqs not build very quickly so fat chance of that but you need to pick a ship based on what your enemy is building, if he picked s2 and you spam kbeq you will have your ass handed to you on a plate. If you had any brains and new how to play you would build kvorts to counter them.
No first and for most a good counter or if there isn't one the nearest thing to a counter is the best thing to choose before you decide what to do with your ships and where to place them.
A counter is a rock solid basis for any good strategy. Leave a counter out of the mix at your own peril.
Feds vs k'beq spam = intrepids and warps.
Roms vs k'beq spam = rhiens/lehevals
Borg vs k'beq spam= dodes/spheres
Dom vs k'beq spam = s2
Klingons vs k'beq spam = sangs/vorcha
I don't like seeing someone claiming to understand strategy
O really.... well i don't like people claiming to understand strategy who don't even play online.
posted on January 9th, 2012, 5:21 pm
Does anyone remember that Matrix scene when morpheus shoots at one of the twins when his arm is holding the door open?
The twin says something like 'can we move things along?'.
Let's do that.
The twin says something like 'can we move things along?'.
Let's do that.
posted on January 9th, 2012, 8:18 pm
godsvoice wrote:But aside from Nerodan and whoever he had playing against him as Klingon, I'm not too sure just what the exact outcome of this is for multiplayer. 1vs1.
It was actually a 2v2. beat2k10a (Mayson Federation) and I (Risner Federation), vs Spretx (Dominion Puretech?) and I believe ?Admiral Fuzzeh? (Martok Klingon).
I can give details if need be, but the storyline was basically well-micro'ed KBQs parked on mining = no ship production = loss. We did a rematch, and I got handed the same storyline except as Mayson with Brels and Kvorts the second time. It was a good game, against a very agressive Klingon player (reminded me of how Mort or Boggz plays Klingons).
posted on January 9th, 2012, 10:47 pm
MrXT wrote:O really.... well i don't like people claiming to understand strategy who don't even play online.
Please don't take this as anything but constructive, but that statement comes off as elitist, harsh, and snobby. If I had just joined this forum, and had read some of the recent threads on the home page, I would be turned off from playing at the heated threads which seemingly frequently turn into name calling and "yelling" back and forth. Usually over minor feature requests or such. Good, helpful threads turn into screaming matches.
I actually don't play online personally due to the tightness (learning curve) of the game, and of the players (tight knit community). I don't want to "noob up" your games. I can't use tunngle, but I could emulate it if I felt the culture here was more open to new players.
I guess what I'm saying, is with that kind of attitude, we may not have many new people visiting that even WANT to play with us.
posted on January 10th, 2012, 2:59 am
Last edited by godsvoice on January 10th, 2012, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
@nerodan. No need for lots of detail thanks for the post. Yes, I was wondering about a split kbeajq and brel spam, 1 of each field extension... but that i'm pretty sure is in the guide. I don't know if you build both yards first, and get them as quickly in the guide's description. Also, I know you have to wait for research for Kvort. So I just want with double yard kbeajq. Personally, brels are not my favourite unit. So instead of having kbeajq and brels, I'd rather start with extra kbeajq. Although, making the centre expansion anything to do with field yard is good in my view. Just so that you have a cheap field repair yard, then turn it into susa, brel, or kbeajq. It's all the same really.
Um, I have no way of testing this... but I have a hunch as to how to respond to double kbeajq yard spam. I haven't timed or tested anything though, (and am guessing people won't like it) but here goes:
Ok, so both fed construction ships build turret platform first thing at each moon. Build four miners, and have them all begin mining. Then when construction ships are finished, build mining, and unload the miners which I'm guessing will finish, except maybe the fourth one depending. You'd have to make the platform into a pulse platform to confront the kbeajq, because phaser would never be ready in time. Then build research and yard. Start with two sabres, they can help the pulse turrets out at least. Because mining will add up, pulse platform being cheap, and having no ships out until chassis one finishes, go right to chassis two. Get akiras going, or intrepids, and still research chassis two, then alternate.
I think this will still have some potential problems, because while it gives you ships you can't expand. But you would have ships. The early pulse platforms might be enough to hold off klingon player initially. but they'd still expand and amass more ships.
Um, I have no way of testing this... but I have a hunch as to how to respond to double kbeajq yard spam. I haven't timed or tested anything though, (and am guessing people won't like it) but here goes:
Ok, so both fed construction ships build turret platform first thing at each moon. Build four miners, and have them all begin mining. Then when construction ships are finished, build mining, and unload the miners which I'm guessing will finish, except maybe the fourth one depending. You'd have to make the platform into a pulse platform to confront the kbeajq, because phaser would never be ready in time. Then build research and yard. Start with two sabres, they can help the pulse turrets out at least. Because mining will add up, pulse platform being cheap, and having no ships out until chassis one finishes, go right to chassis two. Get akiras going, or intrepids, and still research chassis two, then alternate.
I think this will still have some potential problems, because while it gives you ships you can't expand. But you would have ships. The early pulse platforms might be enough to hold off klingon player initially. but they'd still expand and amass more ships.
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