TNG

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:17 pm

gul evek captained the galor class vetar in season 7 in the episode where wesley met the indians and left with the traveller. (Journey's End), it was also evek and the vetar chasing chakotays raider, which is most likely called val jean.

in this episode the gul was called macet, he was the only cardassian with facial hair, and all of them had different uniforms and had helmets. macet captained the trager, also galor class, clearly inferior to the enterprise, as picard forces him to stop attacking him with only a couple phaser strikes.

macet as correctly noted, is played by ds9 veteran marc alaimo, the ds9 writers obviously decided macet wasn't a nice enough name for dukat.

on another note, dukat's first names apparently had initials S.G. as he said them aloud while recording a report for his superiors when in command of terok nor (DS9) in the early sixth season of ds9.

Was the Galor class really inferior to the Galaxy Class, or was the whole thing with "Dukat" an elabotate Cardassian Ruse to get the Federation to hunt down one of there own?

or am i just looking too deep into something for subtext that isnt there?

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:19 pm

Your last statement would be accurate - otherwise then the entire Federation-Cardassian war would have been a ruse just to hunt down that sole Nebula

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:28 pm

yes the galor was inferior to the galaxy, we saw in that episode that the enterprise hurt the galor class trager. in the same episode the phoenix killed one by outranging it.

even if that was staged, in a later episode TNG: The chase, i think someone mentions the galor being less powerful, and thats why they have two of them.

we also see them hurt in the dominion war by a couple galaxies dishing out the pain.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:42 pm

we have seen in the past where a ship will fire phasers at 30%, to give the mis-impression that they are less powerfull then they really are.  i was wondering if "Dukat" was doing that in the wounded to get Picard to play along.  that move would seem "Cardassian-ish" in my opinion.

otherwise, if the Galors were really that weak, one would think the whole Klingon - Cardassian war would have been over in a few weeks.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:46 pm

i agree that plan does sound cardassian, the word for it is sandbagging.

and the klingon cardy war did end pretty fast 
gowron declared victory and left after days i think it was, but kept some colonies and kept making small annoyances in cardy territory.

[Tyler]

posted on December 28th, 2009, 6:55 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 28th, 2009, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Klingon-Cardassian doesn't prove anything. Cardassians don't actually have to be powerful to hold off the Klingons, they are an intelligent and cunning race. The Klingons showed respect for their tactics. The Klingons did well at the start, but the Cardassians quickly held their ground and continued holding them back until the Dominion joined.

Saying the Cardassians must be stronger than shown because they fought well against the Klingons is like saying the Talarian military must be equal to Starfleet because they fought them to a tie and even won a few times.

Klingon-Cardassian War: Cardassian cunning held off the Klingons for nearly 2 years.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:03 pm

the cardys didnt hold their ground until the dominion joined, they lost, clearly defeated. the klingons defeated the cardy fleet in a short time. gowron then declared victory, as stated explicitly in ds9, the klingons then retreated most of their fleet, but left some behind to fortify some stolen cardy colonies and make raids on the cardys to annoy them.

the reason they didnt win was because of the first battle of ds9 in the way of the warrior where sisko sided with the detapa council and gowron decided not to push it because he didnt want a war with the federation yet. he declared victory and left to avoid dishonour and assassination.

[Tyler]

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:05 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 28th, 2009, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Read the link and go down to 'Stalemate'... they broke their leaders morale, but didn't defeat their military.

[Myles]

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:09 pm

Last edited by Myles on December 28th, 2009, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

you havnt read it yourself, it says clearly in that paragraph that gowron retreated his forces.

quote:
Following their defeat at Deep Space 9, the momentum of the Klingon invasion was blunted and Cardassia Prime was out of danger. Gowron, fearing assassination from the failure to conquer the Cardassians, simply declared victory and recalled his forces. Meanwhile, the Klingons, refusing to relinquish the colonies they had conquered, began to fortify their positions and deploying orbital weapons platforms in preparation for a longer war of attrition.

EDIT: further, the cardy military was badly hurt, they let the klingons get away with raids unchallenged because they feared losing what was left of their military.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Although the Klingons were successful in taking the Cardassians by complete surprise with their unprovoked and sudden invasion, the Cardassians were considered to be 'honorable' enemies. Despite being outnumbered, Cardassians were able to maintain a stalemate with the Klingons by causing their ships to chase sensor ghosts and holo-projections as a trap before striking.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:12 pm

they kept a few raiders at bay, arent they great? no, the klingons were raiding cardys, they werent trying really hard.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:14 pm

Klingons may have raided the civilians and undefended outposts, Cardassians were still outsmarting (and holding back) real Warships.

Even with their efforts impared, the Klingons are not the type of race to do a half-assed job at warfare.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:18 pm

but not fleets, the klingons were operating in small groups, they werent really all that bothered as the cardy military was badly badly damaged. they couldnt even find the forces to chase the maquis. the cardys were defeated, the war ended as the klingons recalled their fleet and the cardys didnt try remove the klingons from their colonies.

and the klingons were attacking armed outposts, in the one where the real dukat steals a BoP they attacked a base with that big disruptor.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:23 pm

Considering what the Outpost was, that one was certainly worth special attention.

The Klingons were not focused on the Cardassians much at that the end because they were also fighting the Federation too, not because they weren't worth it. Starfleet is a higher priority, being a more powerful opponant.

posted on December 28th, 2009, 7:26 pm

the majority of the klingon fleet left cardy space long before the war with the federation. the cardys were defeated and broken, lost several colonies, and barely managed to fight off disease and starvation until the dominion arrived. They even had to ask the feds for aid, like replicators, they would never humiliate themselves like that unless the need was dire.

the klingons beat them, they just couldnt finish the job of exterminating cardys because of sisko.