Ship Inconsistencies

posted on January 23rd, 2005, 9:53 pm

just getting into character praetor, imnot crazy...

posted on January 24th, 2005, 2:23 am

I don't know about this whole thing, and preator you do bring up a good point that klingons favor more of a swarm attack than a simple one on one standoff, and factoring out the main anti-stationary weapons, and simply focusing on the Cannon Neg Var (there is apparantly only one that I remeber) and I would think that facing the fact that the Norexan's were taken out with only a consentrated disruptor spread, something I am almost entierly confident the Neg Var could do, considering the Scimitar was built secretly and probably has more resemblence to a maquis raider in terms of the way that recources were gathered, as the Scimitar was assembled by the remans an underdog race that was subjigated, that and Romulan Dissadents helping shinron Which leads me to believe that the Scimitar had been in contruction for a very long time and just had alot of armor/shielding and better than average wepaonry. The Neg Var on the other hand was assembled using the recources of a proven empire with a record for durability (rember the Kling bird in VI a private ship mind you took far more than your average clocked ship when it came to torpedoe fire even agianst the federation's most advanced ship at the time the Excelcior) this leads me to believe that the Ditl (sp?) has its facts wrong, as the Neg Var would have been assembled with more care, more firepower and even more endurance being at the time. It was probably constructed with multiple small targets in mind or one on one fights with large battleships types, and would have probably been more than a match for any "run of the mill starship for atleast another 30 years of assembly with modification in mind. I am fully confident that the Neg Var would sport far more powerful disrupters then medium but rather a versitle divide with both phasers for point defence against smaller ships (as rember the vorcha seemed to have a weakness against small grouping ships, having no ways to take care of them this would (should) have been eliminated in the Neg Var as it should have been carrying light and medium disrupters for small ships, as well as photons, and the heavy and Ultra heavy disrupters for large one on one ship battles, the most probable one on one enemy target would have been the derdrix class battleship (due to the doros connection with romulos) and the Galaxy Class starship (due to decaying relations between the federation and the Klingon emprie of the Time) this is what leads me to believe that the Neg Var should be considered somewhat closer to the Sovi/ Prometheus/ and should have designed to be stonger than atleast the Galaxy and Derdrix class battleships.
I also have credible doubts as to the strenght of the Norexan class shields, and weapons stregth. As we know the only cannon Norexans fought with a soveriegn class starship agianst a overarmed juggernaught, both were critticaly damaged or destroyed by a properly timed disrupter spread from the scimitar (whose weapons despite popular belief would probably have been a little less then the Weapons the Neg Var is prominate for the Mark 18 (this speculation is based of the firing speed of the disrupters) also as stated before the Romulan design focus not on Durability but rather strike speed and stealth and dagger, meaning most romulan ships would probably have more energy devoted to a quick ultra powerful attack burst, if the ship was not immediatly destroyed or crippled the Romulan tactic has been to cloak and then regain energy, where as Klingon designs seem to be focused on lighter weapons with more speed and greater arks (also speculated due to the fact that romulan first strike capability would be devoted to the forward weapons) but the klingon design has far more endurance than your average ship (as we saw without the cloak the in generation Galaxy class weaponry was having no positive affects against a 12 year old bird of prey newer designs would probably be far more durable, and Flagships such as the Neg Var would be stirkingly un destroable, also rember that Klingon ships such as the Vorcha were struck mutliple times by dominon suicide runs in several episodes before eventually floundering)
This is why I find it hard to believe that a run of the mill Romulan starship of any current configuration would be of any match for a Flagship of the klingon Empire

Regards
Fullphaser

posted on January 24th, 2005, 4:03 am

You bring up valid points but theres still alot of things flawed about your post.

For instance, in Nemesis, the reason the Norexan class warbirds faired so poorly against the Scimitar was for 1, the Enterprise has a very skilled and battle hardened crew and 2, It was a movie, so of course the Enterprise had to be the last one standing with the Scimitar.

Again in generations, it was simply a movie. That and the E-D was caught unaware and was unable to bring most of it's weapons to bare. It could have fired 8 torpedos at the BoP but for some reason didn't, their problem.

Your assumption that the D'deridex has few side and rear firing weapons and has mostly forward is just that, an assumption. The Negh'var on the other hand is known to have mostly forward weaponry because thats how every ship in the empire works. The BoP and all of it's varients have ONLY forward weapons while the D-7 and Vorcha have only rear torpedos launchers for rear support. The Negh'var probably has rear disruptors and torpedos but no where near the same amount as the front. Therefore, a sneak attack from behind could have devastating results, a plan which is a custom for Romulan commanders.

Simply thinking I gathered all my knowledge from one source is a mistake, and only listening to the shows and movies is a large mistake also.

Regards,
Romulan Supreme Commander DEFIANT

posted on January 24th, 2005, 4:28 am

and only listening to the shows and movies is a large mistake also.

LOL it is a show!! The only TRULY with out a dought cannon info is on the episopes and movies.
You have a point about sneek atacks, ill give you that.

posted on January 24th, 2005, 6:24 am

Incorrect, canon info is given out with tech manuals, info from the special effects crew and the original designers. Shows distort it via writers who want the good guy to always win, whatever the odds.

posted on January 24th, 2005, 6:27 am

it is a show......lol

posted on January 24th, 2005, 12:09 pm

Of course it is, but your posting in a thread about star trek ship inconsistancies. This is where we debate unreal ships, so either debate or don't post because it's just spam.

posted on January 24th, 2005, 8:21 pm

Praetor lighten up before you get a highatel hernia.

posted on January 24th, 2005, 8:27 pm

Don't make me get midevil on your ass

posted on January 24th, 2005, 9:53 pm

Nice point about the Romulan alpha strike tactics, Fullphaser. That would explain why they're always cloaking and uncloaking all the time. It would also help explain why they got battered so badly against the scorpion. I also tend to agree with you on the hull strength of the Klingons, their shields aren't the greatest (like the Romulans) but the hulls are tough nuts to crack indeed. I'd wager that the Neghvar could destroy almost any alpha quadrant ship, excepting the Sovereign and maybe an extremely intelligently handled Galaxy.

posted on January 24th, 2005, 11:11 pm

Someone didn't take the time to read everything...

[Fullphaser]

posted on January 25th, 2005, 12:55 am

Last edited by Fullphaser on January 25th, 2005, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

You bring up valid points but theres still alot of things flawed about your post.

For instance, in Nemesis, the reason the Norexan class warbirds faired so poorly against the Scimitar was for 1, the Enterprise has a very skilled and battle hardened crew and 2, It was a movie, so of course the Enterprise had to be the last one standing with the Scimitar.

Again in generations, it was simply a movie. That and the E-D was caught unaware and was unable to bring most of it's weapons to bare. It could have fired 8 torpedos at the BoP but for some reason didn't, their problem.

Your assumption that the D'deridex has few side and rear firing weapons and has mostly forward is just that, an assumption. The Negh'var on the other hand is known to have mostly forward weaponry because thats how every ship in the empire works. The BoP and all of it's varients have ONLY forward weapons while the D-7 and Vorcha have only rear torpedos launchers for rear support. The Negh'var probably has rear disruptors and torpedos but no where near the same amount as the front. Therefore, a sneak attack from behind could have devastating results, a plan which is a custom for Romulan commanders.

Simply thinking I gathered all my knowledge from one source is a mistake, and only listening to the shows and movies is a large mistake also.

Regards,
Romulan Supreme Commander DEFIANT

You bring forth valid points, and I do not disagree that the Warbird and her sister ships undoubtably have aft and staboard/port weaponry, however what I do consider is that in similarity with Klingon designs it seems that unlike most federation ships both Romulan and Klingon designs seem to flounder in the areas of aft/port/starboard weapon strenght it is not simply that they do not have the weaponry rather that that weaponry will and has never been the focus of the design even against targets such as vulcan freighters, also when in the Gamma quadrant the warbirds seemed to be powerless in terms of targeting and weapons power against a plethora of targets leading me to believe that the focus weaponry would be foward the Klingons seem to share this flaw but their ships seem to have a higher turning radius and speed in order to compensate and bring the foward weapons to bear, unlike the romulans the Klingons don't seem to have the major advantage of cloaking in atleast 40% of their ships (with the known exceptions of course of the Bird of Prey and Vorcha Series) although the Neg Var and the D-7 and similar ships have shown no prowess for a cloaking capability I am left to assume that the Klingons would not fully employ cloaking technology, rather that the use of the cloak is not a primary meathod of attack. Where as the romulans may have become reliant on the ability to cloak in order to compensate for rear attacks and then coming about while cloaked or simply going around, it seems that the Klingons choose rather to simply have a quicker turn to compensate for the lack of the major use of cloaking in attack statagy,
also on the same cloaking note I find it highly unlikely that the Neg Var has No cloak system what so ever but rather it is never used due to the Klingon Belief in honor, and to cloak a flagship for an attack would be cowerdice, I do however believe that if required to win a battle that a Klingon ship such as the Neg Var class would use the cloak, as with generations I agree that the movie can and probably should be discounted as cannon simply due to the fact that all battle circumstances surrounding the battle were odd to say the least, including a failure to remodulate shields and limited counter attack before retreat by a Galaxy Class starship, circumstances do lead me to believe however that the Galaxy class espessially during the times of Generations was not a battleship on any scale but in terms of Acutall battle capability was rather an Utlra Heavy cruiser, all evidence from pre dominon war action stipulates the lack of fire power and weaponry on the part of the Galaxy inclding the loss to only 2 kvort curisers pioloted by ferengi thieves, as well as the damage the galaxy fleet seems to have taken over the years...
As for Nemisis I find it first hard to believe that only 2 warbirds of the Romulan Emprire would have been capable of responding this slowly, even after the end of the dominion war espessially with essiantly un proven warships, with no previously known combat record.

Regards
Fullphaser

I should also mention that next to episodes my primary sources of information include both the TNG Tech Manual, The DS9 Tech Manual, The all powerful Encyclopedia, Ex Astris, and Daystrom Institute of Technology

posted on January 25th, 2005, 3:21 am

You didn't really discount anything I said previously so I have little to say. Negh'var and D'deridex have nearly the same turn radius, both rely primarily on forward weapons but do have side and rear firing weapons as well (Also ventral and dorsal since it is after all on a 3D plane) so theres very little for me to add. The Negh'var is equal on power and probably has a stronger shield, but the Romulans use of the cloak to hide while they recharge does leave it equal. As I said in the beginning, a Negh'var vs D'deridex fight would result in at the very least a heavily damaged Negh'var, a heavily damaged D'deridex, or a draw.

posted on January 25th, 2005, 5:42 am

Of course. Klingons fight to the very bitter end.

posted on January 25th, 2005, 6:27 am

Even so, don't think a Romulan would turn tail and run if things didn't go their way