Enterprise Alternate Intro

posted on June 29th, 2010, 5:21 pm

Stargate: Lucian?

I'd rather see a series set in Atlantis as the war is starting.

i'd like both. why do stargate characters have to be mainly from earth?

its completely unreasonable unfortunately that SGU will become SG Lucian but i would definitely like one of the lucian alliance guys to defect and become a regular or something.

tylers idea of ancient vs wraith war would be fun.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:26 pm

since gene roddenberry died star trek forgot about a lot of his ideas. we had racism in ds9, and the federation became american lol. roddenberry realised that earth's future would obviate the definition of nationality.

in TOS gene's anti racism ideas shone through, even if it was done rather obviously, white america, black american, russian, scotsman, japanese person, vulcanian vulcan. that episode with the half white half black dudes who were arguing over trivialities etc

Racism in DS9?  DS9 had elements of racism that were fought against....though that's present in all Trek, i.e. "Let That be Your Last Battlefield" Episode 70 from TOS.  Trek isn't racist.  It only discusses the idea of racism and abolishing it. 

As far as the Feds being American, I'm guessing you're referencing their constant need to force their ideas/beliefs on everyone?  That's a human race thing, not an American thing.  America just has a history of doing it the best.  Roman and Greek cultures did it in their days of power too.  Whether that's bad or not, you can be the judge.  I think its good because Feds try to fight things like racism and bigotry and poverty, etc.  If you think its a bad thing, that's fine.  But that means you would have to leave cultures like Cardassians alone which believe in class systems and slavery, etc.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:34 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on June 29th, 2010, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think the American thing was referring more to what culture was represented on the show, not anything about the Federation trying to push their culture on everybody else. The captain must be American, the only one who wasn't was Picard (American captains are likely to get a larger American audience.) Then as if having him be from what we call America wasn't enuff, he had to love baseball, considered by Americans to be a very American sport (right up there on the list of American things next to Apple Pie, both things I personally don't like, even tho I'm American.) Do we ever see Soccer played on the holodeck? Maybe things change in a few hundred years, but why do we see Baseball not Soccer on the holodeck?

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:41 pm

The Federation itslef has similarities to what the USA is supposed to be (and what people patriotic to ridiculous levels think it is), even down to the name and abbreviation. That probably helped...

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:46 pm

Racism in DS9?  DS9 had elements of racism that were fought against....though that's present in all Trek, i.e. "Let That be Your Last Battlefield" Episode 70 from TOS.  Trek isn't racist.  It only discusses the idea of racism and abolishing it. 

do u remember "take me out to the holosuite" i loved that ep, but it had an all vulcan ship, with the vulcans hating everyone but themselves, believing in their ultimate superiority over all. that doesnt sound very IDIC to me. it sounds bloody facist. and then sisko hands out some racism straight back at them, he hates vulcans cos one kicked his arse a few years back, his ego is just as fat as he is. the vulcans take a lot of hate in ds9, they were regularly criminals (maquis vulcan, vulcan with gun who ezri shoots)

thats the racism i was on about, it was all plain silly.

im not from america, but i like apple pie every now and again. we do something called apple crumble which is really nice.

[Gorgo Primus]

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:47 pm

Last edited by Gorgo Primus on June 29th, 2010, 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And as for Vulcans, what is silly is that you seem to be demanding that one race out of 1000s in the Federation get screen time doing something good for every time they are shown doing something questionable. I don't think the Vulcans need fan service and/or PR - they are universally loved by fans. As for there being a Vulcan majority ship in the Federation, why aren't you more upset that allot of ships are Human majority? As for attitudes of characters, I'm glad that DS9 took the time to show that nobody is perfect; even in paradise.


Rose coloured glasses for everyone! TOS was American centric too (Abraham Lincoln, US declaration of independence, American Gangsters, Wild West myths, etc were all in TOS episodes) and TNG had both Starfleet HQ and the Academy placed in San Fransisco, USA - is that now racist? The shows were American centric because the studios and networks were mostly just interested in the North American audience.

As for actual Racism in Trek, the only episode I can think of that WAS racist was a TNG episode called Code of Honor that the entire cast hated and was ashamed of; including Gene who helped oversee it.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:48 pm

Rose coloured glasses for everyone! TOS was American centric too (Abraham Lincoln, US declaration of independence, American Gangsters, Wild West myths, etc were all in TOS episodes) and TNG had both Starfleet HQ and the Academy placed in San Fransisco, USA - is that now racist? The shows were American centric because the studios and networks were mostly just interested in the North American audience.

As for actual Racism in Trek, the only episode I can think of that WAS racist was a TNG episode called Code of Honor that the entire cast hated and was ashamed of; including Gene who helped oversee it.

if u read my post u would realise that my mentioning of racism had nothing to do with what u alledge.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:54 pm

The word "United" doesn't refer to the United States.  It refers to all the planets in their conglomerate coming together as one.....hence "United."

As far as captains being American to capture American audiences.....I think TNG was one of, if not THE best shows to come out of Trek....and Picard to be closely the best (I love Sisko....I can't help it!).  And Picard was French.  As far as holodeck games....most of them were made up and closely resembled tennis and racquetball.  They also featured skiing and various other sports as well.  Not to mention other writers, most often Shakespeare who is not, may I point out, American! lol  I mean, Scott Bakula is gay....that wasn't to capture a gay audience.  He was cast for being a well-known in the sci-fi genre.  

One of the reasons I love Trek was it was always open and had good morals and culture as well as action and science.  Its one of the best all around shows.  I can sit down and watch an episode with my 6 year old, like my Dad did with me, and if anything of question comes up, I can easily explain it.  Meanwhile, he's learning some science and physics, as well as tolerance and acceptance, and having fun while doing it.  I extremely disagree with anyone who calls the show "intolerant" or "racist" or implies that it is or ever was.  Sure there have been hurdles to overcome throughout the years because of how media works and how to market it.  

Check this out: http://www.ibiblio.org/jwsnyder/wisdom/trek.html

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:56 pm

What has the word 'United' got to do with it?

posted on June 29th, 2010, 6:59 pm

i didnt say it was always racist, sometimes they tried hard to be anti racist. but u cant question the examples i gave where they dropped the ball and forgot what trek is about.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 7:00 pm

even down to the name and abbreviation.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 7:02 pm

You actually forget the other 3 words in the name? Astounding... I never even mentioned the word.

United Federation of Planets (UFP) is a space version of United States of America (USA).

posted on June 29th, 2010, 7:07 pm

if u read my post u would realise that my mentioning of racism had nothing to do with what u alledge.

Ahh I apoligize I misread.

I extremely disagree with anyone who calls the show "intolerant" or "racist" or implies that it is or ever was.

Please see the link in my post, Star Trek has been racist once before.

i didnt say it was always racist, sometimes they tried hard to be anti racist. but u cant question the examples i gave where they dropped the ball and forgot what trek is about.

I don't think those are examples of dropping the ball. Star Trek isn't about Marry Sues and perfect people, even in TOS there were Starfleet officers who got caught up in their egos and did horrible things. I am fully okay with there being a handful of rotten eggs such as a racist Vulcan or Klingon or Human. I mean in TNG the Klingons and Romulans HATE each other with a racist passion, and everyone seems to hate Ferengi (to the point where few people could believe that there was a kind and smart Ferengi Scientist). Oh and then there is always Kirk and his crew who hated Klingons.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 7:26 pm

of course there are some racist people, but ds9 had the main character, who is supposed to be good, being a racist. he was upset a few eps later about racism against his race and didnt wanna help vic fontaine, but was quite happy to hate vulcans. what a crap piece of writing that was.

even worse was ds9 had regular racism against vulcans. we had vulcan maquis, vulcan murderer, all vulcan crew of arseholes. the writers hated the vulcans.

romulans and klingons hating eachother is fine, they are both not the good guys.

kirk's hate of klingons was him hating an enemy who killed his son, he wasnt racist, he was angry, later he put his anger aside and realised he didnt actually hate anyone.

in contrast sisko hated vulcans cos one beat him up.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 7:41 pm

How is DS9's Vulcan racism frequent? They weren't there that often, and only had a proper role in one episode. The Vulcan in question wasn't much better, even throwing a personal vendetta against Sisko into his racist view on emotional people.

That Vulcan also showed Sisko up constantly whenever he could and was the only one Sisko showed any dislike towards. His crew never said much or even did much but stare at people when not in play. DS9 didn't have a bad opinion of Vulcans, Enterprise did.

The Murderer was insane (and attempted to justify it with logic) and being in the Maquis isn't racism or it would be racist to the other races involved.