Since the gun debate thread ran wayyyyyyyy off topic.....

posted on April 19th, 2011, 11:07 am

I only read like a third of this thread, but I do remember myles saying something like "UK has gun control, less gun crime; therefore, gun control is good." (last part implied only.)
Correlation =/= causation. You should know this.

of course i know this, you inserted the word "therefore" where it wasnt in my post. i mentioned that we have stricter gun control, we also have less gun crime. that is correlation, my point is that this correlation is good evidence that gun control reduces gun crime. in this case there is causation as well as correlation.

As for the whole "lock up people with guns, therefore criminals will be put away before they can shoot people" argument: I think the chances a criminal will be caught for having a gun are too small for this to be much of an affect.

see you shouldnt talk about a country you obviously dont live in, the police do catch guns before they are used here, they intercept guns being smuggled, they also arrest people who had guns in their possession and were planning to use them later. they also shut down gun factories. this happens all the time, and the effect is that criminals have to struggle to get guns a lot, they are expensive, and most gangs cant afford ownership of a gun, they have to rent them.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:11 pm

Rent-a-gun 

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:30 pm

Rent-a-gun 

yeah, i find it funny too. its not like they have a bank of guns, its shady and informal.

[Tok`ra]

posted on April 20th, 2011, 8:51 am

Last edited by Tok`ra on April 20th, 2011, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

@Tok'ra: didn't you mention a Nazi law earlier? Godwin!

Ok it is a godwin, that said it was something that actually happend, and not a 50hitler post or something.(germany still enforces nazi laws against homeschooling, cant have the little children learning something contrary to what the goverment has to say).

I hope to god you don't have kids, your crazy and just rude 

and note that in his inability to debate, he resorts to insults.

Now let me cite just a few sources so you can educate yourself.

Dont forget: The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress - Heinlein

posted on April 20th, 2011, 9:26 pm

No Tokra I have been debating just fine, but when I get called an ignorant facist or whatever he was oing for, then yes I feel offended. As one who has seen the effects of bad home schooling in this country first hand then it is understood that Germany doesn't want some racist or not very smart parents educating their children. Sorry but some parents shouldn't teach their kids

posted on April 20th, 2011, 9:29 pm

ahem fallout i think tokra may have been on your side against ibench, it looks to me like he was saying ibench was resorting to insults.

posted on April 20th, 2011, 11:09 pm

If he is then I'm sorry but I'm not sure he is

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 8:18 am

I quoted it bad, meant to call both out to varying degrees.

Also, this pic sums it all up. Been TRYING to find it.

Attachments

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 11:04 am

(germany still enforces nazi laws against homeschooling, cant have the little children learning something contrary to what the goverment has to say).

Heh. Schools are essentially a politics-free space (heck, you aren't even allowed to run around with political statements ON YOUR EFFIN' T-SHIRT).

Apart from that, yes. I'm obviously not American, and we over here have our own views on things that go boom. I don't have any problems with people having guns for self-defense. There are a lot of crazy people out there, and if I or my family was threatened, I'd love to have something to defend us with. On the other side, these crazy people are also running around with guns, and that is a problem to me. Not necessarily the fact that there are a lot of illegally-owned weapons (can't stop that, no matter how hard you punish it and how strict the controls are) - that is everywhere, even here. What I have a problem with is the naivety regarding guns and their danger, especially in the states. When you have southerners giving guns to their nine-year old children, then something is wrong. And yes, that actually happened. It may be an unusual case, but it shows an attitude that I think is dangerous.

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 3:07 pm

[...]When you have southerners giving guns to their nine-year old children, then something is wrong. And yes, that actually happened. It may be an unusual case, but it shows an attitude that I think is dangerous.

Actually, it is quite common in the US strangely. Most of my friends from Pennsylvania or other "wilderness" states were given/owned a rifle at 8+ years to 'teach them to be a man'.

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 4:50 pm

I'm not sure learning how to use a gun at an early age is wrong as long as the proper instructions and safety lessons are included.  It is up to the parent to decide what is right for their kid (based on their child's maturity level).

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 7:25 pm

I'm not sure learning how to use a gun at an early age is wrong as long as the proper instructions and safety lessons are included.  It is up to the parent to decide what is right for their kid (based on their child's maturity level).

Personally, I don't think that learning how to use a gun is appropriate for someone below the age of, let's say 18. Let's remember that these are things primarily designed for killing other people. But as I say, it's my personal opinion, feel free to disagree. My problem goes more towards the case that teaching the use of a gun does not happen as you described, and that younger children might not be receptive for the strict rules associated with firearms.

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 8:23 pm

Bottom line guns dont pull the trigger pepole do, is that such a hard concept. If your a law abiding citizen and you meet the criteria there should be no question.

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 8:25 pm

Bottom line guns dont pull the trigger pepole do, is that such a hard concept.

people who are too stupid to be trusted with a gun get guns, not a hard concept.

nobody can pull a trigger of a gun if they arent in posession of a gun, also not a hard concept.

nothing in this debate is really simple.

posted on April 23rd, 2011, 9:44 pm

They cant drive, drink, most cant even get to far from Mom, But they can kill some thing from a long distance with little effort..

Thare was a region there is a move, loard of the flys was made.

Arming kids can have mixed results much more then adults how understand and have experienced things kids have not. Columbine is testament to what happens when guns and kids go unchecked.

Actually, it is quite common in the US strangely. Most of my friends from Pennsylvania or other "wilderness" states were given/owned a rifle at 8+ years to 'teach them to be a man'.