Go Dark for SOPA

posted on January 15th, 2012, 12:33 pm

Technicaly speaking if US decides that it wants a given site to go down (correct me if I am wrong), it could just cooperate with ICANN and delete given dns entry on their servers (or replace it) -

the site wouldn't really go "down", it would still be accessible by numerical ip address or a non usa dns server.

but those aren't within the technical abilities of most internet users, so the loss of traffic would be extreme, as would the loss of services from companies like paypal. so the site would be extremely weakened, but if the host had the money to burn they could continue it, which is unlikely.

posted on January 15th, 2012, 12:52 pm

we will have a thought about it, but we do generally prefer discussion over protest. I must admit I'm not very deep in the whole topic, I only read a few lines here and there, but I never followed a discussion or the political process that lead to this act.

[sectoid]

posted on January 15th, 2012, 12:58 pm

Last edited by sectoid on January 15th, 2012, 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the site wouldn't really go "down", it would still be accessible by numerical ip address or a non usa dns server.

but those aren't within the technical abilities of most internet users, so the loss of traffic would be extreme, as would the loss of services from companies like paypal. so the site would be extremely weakened, but if the host had the money to burn they could continue it, which is unlikely.

Yes, users could have a static entry in config, but that's not probable. Wouldn't most of non-US dns servers get updated dns entries from US servers? I am not sure how dns hierarchy works, but I think that if you are not on national domain then the highest authority is still ICANN (and not the national authority).

posted on January 15th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Yes, users could have a static entry in config, but that's not probable. Wouldn't most of non-US dns servers get updated dns entries from US servers? I am not sure how dns hierarchy works, but I think that if you are not on national domain then the highest authority is still ICANN (and not the national authority).

i'm not 100% on dns, but sopa would only remove the offending site from us dns servers i believe. as non us dns servers dont have to answer to us law. hence if us internet users switched to a non us dns server, they would get around sopa's dns blacklisting.

i dont see why non us dns servers would need to use data from us dns servers, or would delete dns entries just because a us server did so.

but most people don't know about using a different dns server.

[sectoid]

posted on January 15th, 2012, 3:16 pm

Last edited by sectoid on January 15th, 2012, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i'm not 100% on dns, but sopa would only remove the offending site from us dns servers i believe. as non us dns servers dont have to answer to us law. hence if us internet users switched to a non us dns server, they would get around sopa's dns blacklisting.

i dont see why non us dns servers would need to use data from us dns servers, or would delete dns entries just because a us server did so.

but most people don't know about using a different dns server.

It should work somewhat like this:
1. My computer sends a request for fleetops.net to IPS dns server
2. a. adress is in cache or table of that server -> send back IP
2. b. adress is not in cache -> send back ip of server which might know the ip (root name server), or knows someone who knows the ip
3. send. req. to root name server -> sends back ip of someone who knows
4. ...
5. some server knows and sends me back ip

Now, if you manage to force the root name server to either refuse the req, or send different ip (3), then it is either in cache or nobody using this root server sees fleetops.net. Root servers for non-national domains, are under the authority of ICANN (managed by other companies though). So ICANN forces managing entity (like Verisign for .com domains) to change dns entry.
All local caches must be sooner or later updated (so IPS dns sends req. for site to root server - which gives new entry).

DNS lookup for fleetops.net:

Searching for fleetops.net. A record at E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. [192.203.230.10] ...took 200 ms
Searching for fleetops.net. A record at j.gtld-servers.net. [192.48.79.30] ...took 343 ms
Searching for romeo.dnsforyou.de. A record at E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. [192.203.230.10] ...took 204 ms
Searching for romeo.dnsforyou.de. A record at z.nic.de. [194.246.96.1] ...took 2 ms
Searching for romeo.dnsforyou.de. A record at juliet.dnsforyou.de. [213.133.112.98] ...took 6 ms
Searching for fleetops.net. A record at romeo.dnsforyou.de. [80.237.238.130] ...took 8 ms

A record found: 87.106.9.71

The first server is root server in California.
Only way to avoid this is by using alternative dns (with different root servers, or by using static config).

posted on January 15th, 2012, 3:54 pm

Only way to avoid this is by using alternative dns (with different root servers, or by using static config).

that is what i'm suggesting, set your dns to a dns outside of sopa's effects. therefore fleetops.net would still be listed on this dns.

a lot of this is a little over my head, but i'm assuming sopa can't force dns servers outside of usa to delist.

posted on January 15th, 2012, 5:32 pm

I think FO should.  We could all use the break!

posted on January 15th, 2012, 7:50 pm

I think ppl here should start to think instead of running in circles crying and shouting...the FBI is not behind you neigther are they interested in FO or 99% of all sites in the internet. But you are of course free to believe in anything you want...

posted on January 15th, 2012, 7:54 pm

Drrrr, it is companies which are the problem here, which especially have a solid track record of doing similar things.

Perhaps you recently heard of when all Battlestar Galactica mods were pulled from ModDB, because the parent company to BSG Online demanded it? Or Star Wars mods in the past, or perhaps Star Craft mods on other games - this is a relatively common occurrence, even when the people who work on these mods are often employed (or have been employed) by the EXACT same companies that make the "real" games.

posted on January 15th, 2012, 10:24 pm

Due to the corruption in this country, it is not if but when this will pass. It violates due process and the US constitution, but no one seems to notice. Rant aside, when this goes into effect, entire sites like Fleet Ops would be able to be shut down and have their domains seized by simply accusing the site of malpractice. There will be no due process or such.

They would say " this mod is illegal because so and so copyright or patent", and boom, no more fleet ops. No chance for the community to even deny it or fight back before it all happened.

Lucky FO servers are in Germany, and their Gestapo got shut down a long time ago. At least the site could not be seized, but like Myles said, it'll hurt us all eventually. Also, losing players on a mod that has about 200-300 total, hurts. 

As a side note, the DHS is going to now be monitoring public sites for "political dissent." We have lost the US government. They are now china.

posted on January 15th, 2012, 10:48 pm

Due to the corruption in this country, it is not if but when this will pass. It violates due process and the US constitution, but no one seems to notice. Rant aside, when this goes into effect, entire sites like Fleet Ops would be able to be shut down and have their domains seized by simply accusing the site of malpractice. There will be no due process or such.

They would say " this mod is illegal because so and so copyright or patent", and boom, no more fleet ops. No chance for the community to even deny it or fight back before it all happened.

Lucky FO servers are in Germany, and their Gestapo got shut down a long time ago. At least the site could not be seized, but like Myles said, it'll hurt us all eventually. Also, losing players on a mod that has about 200-300 total, hurts. 

As a side note, the DHS is going to now be monitoring public sites for "political dissent." We have lost the US government. They are now china.

When was the last time an American politician cared for the constitution? 

posted on January 16th, 2012, 12:39 am

A fairly long time, now less than ever.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson

posted on January 16th, 2012, 2:23 am

I can think of one or two off the top of my head but far less than it should be

[JeanLucPicard]

posted on January 16th, 2012, 6:10 pm

Last edited by JeanLucPicard on January 16th, 2012, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Apparently they stopped SOPA! Developing News The internet wins: SOPA has been shelved, but we must remain vigilant | ExtremeTech

posted on January 16th, 2012, 6:20 pm

Yay. it's dead. for now.......