The B'rel by Boggzy

posted on November 1st, 2010, 8:36 am

But am I right that WF is a onetime ability that only lasts 40s? Or does it recharge in some way?

posted on November 1st, 2010, 8:45 am

It uses special energy and supplies.  Once the special energy recharges you should be able to use it again.

posted on November 1st, 2010, 4:42 pm

Weapon Fatigue is a great ability, no questions.  It turns the B'rel into a destroy-powerhouse with stats almost equal to a KBQ.

  The issue however is that I'm saying the B'rel is already basically a waste of supplies unless you are building it to counter VERY specific ships.  A special weapon that renders cloak-attacks and cloak-retreats impossible while risking ever MORE supplies was a solution for the wrong problem in my opinion.

Again, it's a great special, it just attempts to solve the wrong problem in my mind.  It gives the B'rel staying power, which is not really what it needs.  Since it's intended use an interceptor is already rendered a bit moot by the list I made in the Original post, giving it extra stats at the cost of MORE supplies doesn't really help.  In fact it compounds the problem of wasting supply in my opinion.

  If Weapon Fatigue were to go away and a simple reduction in supply cost be implemented instead I think we'd see people actually build B'rels as a default unit and as "filler" instead of spamming the overwhelmingly more cost-effective KBQ instead.

posted on November 1st, 2010, 6:31 pm

Personally I use the B'rel mostly for two things: Chasing vessels which cloak-retreat and as a split force to raid undefended minings. Oh and a third thing: drawing uncoordinated fire in fleet actions.

However, I have had many situations when I had at least one B'rel (veteran) left till the end or at least later battles.

I'd like to use it as a real counter as well, but the B'rel has -as Boggz said- only weaknesses against the vessels it is supposed to counter. Bombers hurt when they hit, Sabers at least can hurt while you try to get in range, and especially Rhienns really kick B'rels with strong pulses and worse; With phase-plates AND strong pulses. Weapon fatige only helps when it comes to mining-raids and leveling up single B'rels Or when you need some extra durability within a fleet-battle.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 4:15 pm

Sadly, my issue with the B'rel comes completely down to supplies.  If the Klingons weren't under such a tight supply crunch, I'd be fine with the B'rel as is.  However, I'd rather build a KBQ, or a K'vort, or a couple K't'inga.  I try to keep one B'rel around out of my stubborn insistance on having one just because all Klingon fleets should.

It frequently sits cloaked, next to the Kahless Station.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 4:41 pm

K'Vorts in fact earn 1/2 as much supply per kill as they 'would' - K't'inga are even weaker than a B'rel, and are much less cost effective.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 4:47 pm

You're right, Dom, but what I think Raven means is that while Kvorts return less supplies, they are more supply-cost effective.

  Kvorts kill stuff and cost only 2 more supply than a B'rel.  B'rels are more specialist and die much faster .  I don't agree with his mention of the ktinga but I think that's what he meant by the KBQ and Kvort.  They may not have the same supply gain per rank as a B'rel, but they last MUCH longer in combat and have fewer weaknesses.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 5:30 pm

That was Silent, and supply cost effectiveness is entirely related to how you use your ships. Exactly as proven with K't'ingas, which are terribly cost-ineffective, but can be used well . K'Vorts cost 4 more supply.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 9:30 pm

That, right there.  A B'rel costs 4 less supply than a K'vort.  Weapon Fatigue costs 6 supply.  The two combine to maybe give you a good payout, providing that B'rel strikes the killing blow...but at this point, the B'rel has just cost you more supply than the K'vort, which is a far, far superior warship.

As for the K't'inga, if you can manage to get them a couple ranks, they become much harder to kill than a B'rel (though still not supertough).  They seem to get the same officer and veteran abilities as the KBQ, and really...if memory serves, they build much faster than the B'rel, allowing your field yard to be making  K'vort that will remain a useful and fearsome ship the whole game instead of B'rel.

posted on November 2nd, 2010, 11:59 pm

That was Silent, and supply cost effectiveness is entirely related to how you use your ships.

  That's a part of it, indeed.  However it's not solely the decisive factor.  Some ships have more broad uses than others.  Kvorts are best used against Medium Range (the most common range), while the B'rel is against Long.  Long is less common for most part and I've taken time more than once to describe how, in almost each case, the intended counter has some form of counter back against the B'rel. 

  Since the K'vort and B'rel have the same weaponry/range/size layouts, I'd be happy to list all of the things the K'vort is intended to counter, but you already know them, Dom .

  If I may, "Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken" .  Nor does slapping some extra stats on the B'rel make it somehow better against the things it still does not counter .

posted on November 3rd, 2010, 12:43 am

The funny thing is leveld up K'tingas are about just as good as a b'rel swarm, and easier to spam while you tech up.

posted on November 3rd, 2010, 7:23 am

Tried to generate some love for the B'rel and WF last night so played a game heavily using the B'rel for raiding.

I will say that I have really underestimated the B'rel, but I still don't like WF.  The B'rel is a nice ship, although it dies very very easily from just about anything.  Even scouts can put a visible dent in its shields!

But WF... no, I just can't appreciate it.  If it didn't cost supply I would be happy with it, or if the effect didn't rely on the ship you use it on getting the kill, then I could live with it.  But as it stands i only used it to save the life of a troubled ship to escape thanks to the speed boost.  For killing enemies it has to be either all or nothing, ie: activate WF on all B'rels to ensure that when the target is killed at least one B'rel gets the benefit.  Otherwise it is just micro madness to stop all your other B'rels from firing just at the moment the target is down to just a few % shields.

posted on November 3rd, 2010, 7:29 am

Some ships have more broad uses than others.  Kvorts are best used against Medium Range (the most common range), while the B'rel is against Long.  Long is less common for most part and I've taken time more than once to describe how, in almost each case, the intended counter has some form of counter back against the B'rel. 

   Since the K'vort and B'rel have the same weaponry/range/size layouts, I'd be happy to list all of the things the K'vort is intended to counter, but you already know them, Dom .

Because of those things I brought up another idea, what if we exchanged the passives of the B'rel and K'Vort? Take a look at my Thread for further explanation Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Klingons vs long range; the B'rel

posted on November 4th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Just to generate some more ideas for the B'rel:

Perhaps a change to weapon fatigue would make things more interesting.  Weapon fatigue would still reduce the weakness for ships with defensive passives, but ships with offensive passives would gain a +50% bonus to their damage.  So the B'rel (the only offensive passive ship with manual targeting) would do 200% damage to long ranged units, instead of 150%.

Another thought is that it doesn't always have to be the highest priority on the targeting list, so that it won't always be attacked first.  Perhaps it can have a "Priority defensive value" of 20 or 21, so that kbeajq and kvorts would be attacked first, unless you specifically target the brels.  Or perhaps instead of the +6 to defense from WF, it puts the ship last on the targeting list, because a Dahar master is in charge and enemy ships are having a hard time hitting it.

posted on November 4th, 2010, 11:27 pm

I am certain that Sto'vo'kor's pillar shook at the cheers that rang out at Kor's arrival!