Son'a Ideas

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 2:16 am

You know, I was wondering something similar to Redshirt. The Son'a ships might have looked cool, but I never got the sense that they were a 'major' race really. I'd think the Breen were much more powerful and populous, and to be honest, the same for even the defeated Cardassians. It seems odd to say that the Son'a, who were largely dealt with during the events of Insurrection, are on par of races that had entire empires and multiple systems under their sway.

That said, I think that the ideas floating about are interesting and would add a different dimension to the game. it sounds like they would be unpredictable to play.

I'm not sure off hand what would be an alternative third avatar for the Dominion. I do wonder if the design team might consider other more major races that have developed histories for inclusion as avatars on the other races, such as Vulcans or Andorians for the Feds; Gorn for the Klingons; etc. I've seen the posts from TUN for example on the cool ideas for the Romulans and Borg. Would these not be better to do first?

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 2:22 am

The Son'a weren't a major race, but neither were the Breen; they were a minor power who's only true impact was that energy dissipator.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 2:34 am

I'd say the Breen were much more significant than the Son'a, given the numbers of ships they sent to war, the fact they were at the core of Dominion command once they joined the war, etc. So I don't really see how the Son'a are in the same league, whether in importance or technology.  And again, I never had the impression the Son'a were a race of billions like the other races.

One idea may be to overhaul the Breen Avatar as well to reflect a more interesting alliance. If Dom's ideas about having mulitple ships, not just 2, are the way to go for the Son'a, perhaps the Breen should be fleshed out more themselves.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 2:53 am

The Son'a weren't a major race, but neither were the Breen; they were a minor power who's only true impact was that energy dissipator.

The Breen are almost always considered a major Alpha Quadrant power in EU works, and recently (according to Memory Beta, at least) became a founding member and core race of the Typhon pact - which puts them on the same level as the Romulans, Tholians, and Gorn.

The Son'a, on the other hand... aren't even cool. Seriously, they suck. Terrible. Awful. Nobody loves them, or even likes them. If I wanted a wrinkly old man/thing on my avatar picture, I'd much rather use William Shatner.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:05 am

The EU doesn't really mean anything, though. It's not actually a part of Trek.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:12 am

The Son'a, on the other hand... aren't even cool. Seriously, they suck. Terrible. Awful. Nobody loves them, or even likes them. If I wanted a wrinkly old man/thing on my avatar picture, I'd much rather use William Shatner.

This statement is completely subjective and based on opinion. I'm pretty confident there are quite a lot of people out there that love the horseshoe design of the Son'a ships. In terms of them as a race I don't think it's fair to judge the entirety of the Son'a race based off of the small group that was shown in the poorly made Insurrection movie. It would be like judging all Breen based on their first appearance in DS9 as random slave mine guards. If that were to have been the only appearance of the Breen we'd just assume that they are nothing but thugs that make women and children do all their manual labor.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:29 am

And as soon as you start bad mouthing the Breen, TUN will come after you. :shuriken:   :ermm:
                                                                                                                       TUN     YOU 
         

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:31 am

Opinion? Absolutely, 100%, and I'll stand by that opinion. (The ship designs are fine once you divorce them from the Son'a themselves.)

And that small group was established to be pretty much their entire race - a bunch of rebellious Ba'ku who pulled grand theft starship and blew the sector, only to return for revenge a century or two later.

The EU doesn't really mean anything, though. It's not actually a part of Trek.

Right. In that case, why not compare the number of canon ships seen on screen to determine their relative importance, since anything else isn't real Trek.

[Tyler]

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:37 am

Last edited by Tyler on June 3rd, 2011, 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not fond of being reminded something isn't canon, I take it? I only reminded you they carry no weight.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 3:45 am

And as soon as you start bad mouthing the Breen, TUN will come after you. :shuriken:   :ermm:
                                                                                                                       TUN     YOU 
         

And the Son'a for that matter. 
While they did have quite a poor appearance in Insurrection I blame that on the terrible quality of the movie. The Son'a are actually quite a competent military force with several systems and outposts under their control. This was mentioned in DS9 (the episode Penumbra to be more specific). Besides, you have to be fairly competent in military and economics to enslave two other races and actually be considered an official ally of the Dominion (that or the Dominion were just happy someone could produce Ketrecel White in the Alpha Quadrant effectively...). In terms of "canon" it's been stated clearly that the Son'a are an empire and that the ones seen in Insurrection were just a small teenee tinee group lead by a jerk. The idea of an large multi system spanning  empire and military force rising from a small backwater planet of pacifists sound too unlikely? Ehem, look at the Romulans. 

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 4:28 am

Not fond of being reminded something isn't canon, I take it? I only reminded you they carry no weight.

Canon is meaningless in Fleet Operations. What I was indicating is that according to what you would consider as canon, the Breen have a fleet while the Son'a have... three ships. Sure, they might have more, but we don't see them, so they aren't canon.

I'm just saying that using canon to claim equality falls far short of the mark.

And the Son'a for that matter. 

They conquered two pre-warp civilizations. Any wahoo captain with a working phaser array and more than ten crew could do the same.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 4:36 am

Canon is meaningless in Fleet Operations. What I was indicating is that according to what you would consider as canon, the Breen have a fleet while the Son'a have... three ships. Sure, they might have more, but we don't see them, so they aren't canon.

I'm just saying that using canon to claim equality falls far short of the mark.

I'm just trying to make sure you haven't forgotten the EU is just as problematic as canon, including contradicing canon as much as canon did. I believe the Shatnerverse and Pluto-eating Cube is part of the EU?

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 4:53 am

The EU is a mess, but they've been trying to straighten things out recently. Pluto notwithstanding. Still, FO deviates from canon at several points already.

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 4:53 am

What I was indicating is that according to what you would consider as canon, the Breen have a fleet while the Son'a have... three ships.

Going by "canon" as I said before it's clearly stated in DS9 that the Son'a are a multi system spanning empire, not three ships. Confirmed by the words of the almighty Weyoun in the DS9 episode Penumbra.

Canon is meaningless in Fleet Operations.

This is true, FO is it's own setting and it's based off a role play the Devs created and is not tied to canon. In this roleplay the Son'a apparently were a large enough force and allies of the Dominion (which coincidentally is also canon by the words of the almighty Weyoun in the DS9 episode Penumbra, just throwing that out there). Even the revered Armada 1 had us fighting off an army of Son'a ships early in the game.  B)

Look at the bright side, all the Son'a haters will get a chance to blow up their awesome horseshoe ships when they finally make it in FO.  :lol:

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 4:55 am

If you threaten a planet with orbital bombardment, I'm sure they'd be happy to join your "empire". In fact, you only need one ship to pull that off.