Son'a Ideas

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 7:23 pm

Did they say the original race killed their homeworld? I only recall mentioning them on the brink of self-annihilation, which is something a planet can survive.

they didnt say they were destroyed. and although inventive, there was no mention of the sona reintegrating with the previous civilisation or taking some resources/tech from them.

i prefer to think that both the romulan and sona are silly. rather than the romulan justifying the sona.

remember that the romulan split off story was written in the 60s when everyone was smoking pot and stories were generally crazy, the sona story was written in recent times where they have no excuses. 

posted on June 3rd, 2011, 7:37 pm

I found the Baku to be much more silly than the Sona.

I also assume that they lied to the Enterprise-crew when telling them the Sona "left" the planet. I think the Baku banned them for liking technology and that Ru'afo was a victim of a really bad childhood and lateron genetic manipulation to extend his lifetime. I'd go crazy after that, too 


However, on the avatar-bonus: I think the Son'a could provide their own supply-mining that works more efficient than the Dominion-one. The Son'a-battleship could be the fast counterpart to the puretech's Defender- faster, weak to long-ranged attackers but armed with a subspace-special-weapon and standard-weaponry on unknown-based technology- dealing high damage to medium-ranged ships that are at the same time large-sized.


The smaller Sona-ship could be a heavy destroyer with a unique pulse-weapon that creates smaaaaaaaall subspace distortions on impact; granting a chance to reduce the shieldstrength over time (for about 6 seconds).

[Re4_Wesker]

posted on June 4th, 2011, 1:18 am

Last edited by Re4_Wesker on June 4th, 2011, 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah we never saw any younger generation Son'a in Insurrection which begs the question did they procreate or not? I'm assuming they did because that would be the most sensible path to take after being exiled from their home.

Also I can think of a combination of reasons as to why the Son'a could be considered a stronger faction at this point in star trek history.  For one, we could argue that they are not the only survivors of the conflict that nearly destroyed the Baku some time ago (mentioned already by TUN).  That being said, the Son'a could have integrated these remnants/culturally assimilated them into their own empire.  Then, assuming that they did procreate then they could have sufficient numbers to further sustain their race.

Now my last argument is sort of a stretch but is all together very possible.  Now let's assume that the Baku/Son'a race was indeed wiped out after the Baku fled their homeworld and headed to The Briar Patch.  The Son'a would still procreate but they would soon realize that they were a dying people/group.  Realizing their peril, they turn to the Dominion to help advance their own species.  The Founders have incredible skill and abilities when it comes to genetic manipulation and we only have to see the Jem'hadar and the Vorta as examples to prove that.  Perhaps the Son'a seeked the help of the Dominion in an attempt to preserve their own race, using their own abilities to synthesize Ketracel white, which the Dominion desperately needed, as a bargaining chip to do this.  You could argue that the Son'a siding with the Dominion was actually a method of survival for them at this point and time and a method which they hoped could preserve their race.

posted on June 4th, 2011, 5:25 am

Yeah we never saw any younger generation Son'a in Insurrection which begs the question did they procreate or not? I'm assuming they did because that would be the most sensible path to take after being exiled from their home.

Also I can think of a combination of reasons as to why the Son'a could be considered a stronger faction at this point in star trek history.  For one, we could argue that they are not the only survivors of the conflict that nearly destroyed the Baku some time ago (mentioned already by TUN).  That being said, the Son'a could have integrated these remnants/culturally assimilated them into their own empire.  Then, assuming that they did procreate then they could have sufficient numbers to further sustain their race.

Now my last argument is sort of a stretch but is all together very possible.  Not let's assume that the Baku/Son'a race was indeed wiped out after the Baku fled their homeworld and headed to The Briar Patch.  The Son'a would still procreate but they would soon realize that they were a dying people/group.  Realizing their peril, they turn to the Dominion to help advance their own species.  The Founders have incredible skill and abilities when it comes to genetic manipulation and we only have to see the Jem'hadar and the Vorta as examples to prove that.  Perhaps the Son'a seeked the help of the Dominion in an attempt to preserve their own race, using their own abilities to synthesize Ketracel white, which the Dominion desperately needed, as a bargaining chip to do this.  You could argue that the Son'a siding with the Dominion was actually a method of survival for them at this point and time and a method which they hoped could preserve their race.

I totally agree on this, while a minor faction of the war, never being seen in mass combat fleets, they may have provided security vessels for systems and most of their ships were assigned to the protection of their own space and the White facilities. Hence why we never say them in the series of DS9.

I can't see any reason why the Sona can't be in FO as a third avatar faction for the Dominion. I was even planning on doing a full race mod for them quite sometime ago, but have since found I got enough modding projects on to work about any other Trek based mods.

[Tryptic]

posted on June 4th, 2011, 9:30 pm

Last edited by Tryptic on June 4th, 2011, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I say that the Son'a from Insurrection were a small group that split from the Baku, and completely separate from the rest of the Son'a.  They were able to obtain a ship, yes, and they are the same race but I believe the Son'a as a whole must have a longer history.  Probably most of them don't even have the face-stretchy crap.

-----

Now, for the Avatar.

Avatar bonuses:
+50% hitpoints on all large yard ship life support subsystems, Alpha ketracel white causes 50% fewer casualties
Tech lab and Ketracel White Facility cost reduced by 33%
Begins the game with +100 supply.

Unique Ship #1: Son'a Marauder (because it's a good name)

Medium Destroyer - It is medium size but has some destroyer vulnerabilities
18/21/12 - Designed to be used as a skirmisher, in small numbers
Medium Range, speed 110 - It can be used in many situations
Pulse and Beam weaponry - 1/2 beam, 1/6 pulse, effective against early game ships
Passive: Isolytic Weaponry - Pulse hits cause damage over time: 5 second duration, 1/3 of total damage  Multiple hits do not stack (or have a stack limit of 3-4)
Special: Isolytic Inversion - causes light damage and has a 70% chance to deal additional damage to life support.  The Marauder's weapons go offline for 10 seconds after use

The Son'a Marauder will be a ship that encourages micro instead of macro.  Its passive works best with small numbers and does not scale with many ships, while its special encourages players to keep at least 1-2 in their fleet. The damage dealt by the special is slightly random, but in general a single shot will break life support on a destroyer while a larger ship would require 2 or 3 shots.  The chances of 2 shots succeeding are 49% while the chances of 3 succeeding are only 34%.  Marauders will be deadly fleet supporters, but with about 1/3 of their damage coming from the passive and a high di/tri cost compared to other Dominion ships, they are NOT spammable.

Unique Ship #2: Son'a Desolator (or battleship, whatever  )

Large Battleship - perhaps built by the constructor like Hyper Arty, otherwise does not require a prototype
38/44/22 - In keeping with tradition for Avatar-specific battleships
Medium Range, speed 80 - It needs to be more mobile than its counterparts, but medium range balances this.  (Of course, I also think the Defender and Breen Battleship should each get a speed boost of 10)
Pulse and Beam weaponry - 1/2 beam, 1/4 pulse, balances a torp heavy lineup
Passive #1: Isolytic Weaponry - Pulse hits cause damage over time: 5 second duration, 1/4 of total damage.  Multiple hits do not stack (Perhaps not even with Marauders)
Passive #2: Isolytic Inverter - ALL Pulse hits have a 70% chance to deal direct damage to life support.  Same damage numbers as Marauder special.  Ship fires 2 pulses every 4 seconds or so.
Special: Fancy ring blower upper (don't remember the name)  Costs 50 supply and activates a long range (artillery range?) beam on a targeted moon that lasts 8-10 seconds and instantly returns 100 supply if it completes successfully.  Produces an Ion storm over that moon that lasts for 2-3 minutes.  Special energy costs only allow it to be used every few minutes but C-11 energy beacons can help with that.

The Son'a Desolator costs 100 supply to build and is capped at either 1 or 2

-------------------

The Son'a avatar allows a Dominion player to focus more on micro-control and less on macro economy.  The supply bonus means they have more flexibility before they are required to set up supply mining, while their unique ships are designed to be used in very small numbers unlike other Dominion ships.  The Son'a Marauder is a quick, dependable way to start a fleet when you don't know your opponent's every move, and makes replacing a lost fleet easier (normally a Dominion player who loses his fleet is completely screwed)  It also allows the Dominion to capture enemy ships in the early game but its passive can kill the target if you aren't careful.

The Son'a Desolator (Battleship, Collector, Extractor, whatever...) on the other hand, allows a player to sustain himself with supply raids rather than a complex economy if he so chooses.  Its extraction special can be used on empty moons if you defend it well, or against enemy moons as harrassment or even the spearhead of your assault.  Its damage over time and life-support killing passives are also very powerful due to the fact that you won't be able to build more than 1-2 of them.

Finally, the Son'a Avatar bonuses themselves promote the use of specials, making it easier to tech up but providing no fleet bonuses whatsoever.

What do you guys think?

posted on June 5th, 2011, 12:57 am

It's very good for the most part, but I would have prefered to see the destroyer have a bit lower cost so you could spam them a little as the Dominion really lacks a good early game vessel in my view.

posted on June 5th, 2011, 3:36 am

Good concepts. One specific change is that the Battleship should be the same speed as the Sovereign, which is 90.

posted on June 5th, 2011, 8:17 am

The Romulan origin story is also fairly similar to the Son'a. A very small group of several hundred Vulcans left on pre-warp ships to the Romulas system, and within just a century or two managed to build up this large interstellar empire with cloaking technology. Considering the Romulans had even less then the Son'a to work with, I think the case of the Son'a building a niche empire in a short time is fairly acceptable.

The Romulans left Vulcan in around the 4th century, so they've actually had about 2000 years to build up rather than a century....also I don't believe it was ever stated how many Romulans left Vulcan, so it could just as easily be several thousand rather than several hundred...

[Zulnak]

posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:45 am

Last edited by Zulnak on June 5th, 2011, 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm coming back to the Ship-Stats from Tryptic and compare them with Mal & Dominus Noctis summary on page one. In my opionen there setup is a little better.

The Son'A Destroyer should be located at the level of a S-2 Escort Cruiser but with a different role in gameplay due range, type of weapon (i.e. pulse) and staying power like K'Vort, Intriped or even Moonsons.

A Son'A Battleship should another option to the T-15 Heavy Cruiser from the early Large Construction Yard without require a Prototyp of this Class. So there is a good reason to chose the Avatar of Son'A except a possible Supply (Ketracel White) boost. As some Passiv I could see some Ambassador-Class like (not Specialweapon, I mean Passivs!) High Density Shield Generators instead of Ablative Armor Plates cause this is for the something for the T-15 Heavy Cruiser. Range: M; Weapons: B/T.

For both vessels there are already some existing on which we/devs can build.

The icing on the cake (das sprichwörtliche i-Tüpfelchen) would a Son'A Collector as a replacement of the Hyperspace Artillery with some abilities mentioned by someone others... something like the BortaS special on shortrange base. Maybe the specialenergy only regenerate while the ship is sitting in a nebula?!

So whats up now? We all more or less at the same viewpoint --- how to get the attention of the devs to establish the third Avatars into FleetOps? Maybe a green note in here.

• Changes and additions to Dominion mining (20%)
• Dominion early game addition (20%)

-- Both points can wiped out with something like this... but if I'm honest there are faster ways in place of establish a third Avatar.
The Apocrypha anyway mention Son'A as a planned third Avatar. I have no idea! Perhaps someone know in which state of the develop the next Avatars are planned -- 4.0.0? 

posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:56 am

lol we cant force the devs to do anything

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:09 pm

Looks like i may be weighing in a bit late here... But why not make the Battleship something more akin to a Battlestar galactica. The "shuttle" we see from the sona really appears more like a attack fighter. More akin to a modern day A-10 than an F-16. Why not make it a combat capable carrier. Isolytic  weaponry being a gained combat ability rather than something by default.

The collector ship i don't think should be in game, it seemed like a one-off single use device.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:19 pm

replace the b5 with a sona carrier? an interesting idea. but these battleships really gave the enterprise a thrashing.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:24 pm

Of course they thrashed the ship, it was in an area it wasn't built to function in and had Riker in command.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:44 pm

Ent-E was at a huge disadvantage based only on the location. The Briar patch kept the Ent-E's shield busy keeping dangerous gases out of its' drive system. The impulse drive was severely impeded to prevent igniting something. etc etc. Where as the Son'a Battle Cruisers were specially outfitted for this environment. It was also 2 v 1. The Ent-E was also without its' captain (not that Riker did a poor job), Tactical officer or an experience Conn officer.

All serious problems for combat in that environment.

That being said, they clearly were combat ships, but because of their size I can't imagine them being a match for a Defiant much less a Sovereign. Remember that a Federation Scout ship managed to cripple a Destroyer of theirs with just a few well placed phaser strikes.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 9:59 pm

Which is a venture in flops