some ideas i have

posted on February 8th, 2010, 9:03 pm

you can actually already do that in a2.  that's what dom meant by Armada.

if both teams select the same armada, they will control the same units.

It's quite probable that, A2 is what *I* meant too 
My memory seems to fade into vague obscurity after a while

posted on February 9th, 2010, 1:58 am

BTW, I just want to say to deathincarn that this was a great way to put forward suggestions.  Bullet form with numbers so people are more compelled to actually respond to each individual suggestion as opposed to (like we all do) lumping them all into one assumption about a race or a ship and going bonkers  .

posted on February 9th, 2010, 2:05 am

It's quite probable that, A2 is what *I* meant too 
My memory seems to fade into vague obscurity after a while

Sorry I was obscure, lol.

There is an "armada" option in multi-player.  it is usually set to personal.  if two people on the same team select the same armada, they will control the same units.  is that better?

posted on February 9th, 2010, 5:03 am

ok this is off topic here... but its jus a quick question

but how often do mod updates come out? like can i expect a update every month, 3months, every 6 months?  i know the update will be ready when its ready, so its not like im demanding fast progress. im just curious 

posted on February 9th, 2010, 6:19 am

i have some more ideas.

1: Can we make it possible to group up ships so that wen i tell that group to "search and destroy" that the group will go and "search and destroy" together. coz at the moment when i make a group ie: crl+number and then tell the group to search and destroy, the group will then break up and each ship will go do its own thing. Or is this already in the game and im jus missing something??? 

Coz at times id really like to group up a 2 spheres and 2 diamonds and get them to search and destroy together.

2: can we make a setting that we can set on borg ships where the settings force the borg ship to assimate and not destroy. so that when a borg vessel engages a enemy vessel it will attack the vessel/s until its shields are down and then transport drones aboard until its captured and then the captured vessel will automatically go to the nearest conduction matrix.

3: also can we add a new module to all borg ships that allows the borg ship to auto recrew itself and surrounding vessels providing it has this module. this way if u have a of group say 5 of spheres and 2 spheres have this module installed those two spheres will automatically recrew themselves and the other spheres too, it will take out some of the fleet micromanaging

posted on February 9th, 2010, 7:46 am

we are aiming for regular releases with less then a few month time between them, but that always depends on the exact content we want to do. some stuff is not doable within a month

Sounds like a good addition to search and destroy, but i fear thats relatively hard to do. We will take a look

Borg recrewing will be changed in the next patch and should be easier to do. the "assimilate and not destroy" function is your job all races have a certain set of features that require a player to micro manage. thats intended

posted on February 9th, 2010, 12:23 pm

This cannot be balanced.  I've read you saying that it can be and I can assure you, it cannot be balanced.  The variables in the math don't add up.  Plus, as ppl have already said, it would be very unrealistic seeing a Newton class repair ship decimating a Tactical Cube.

This is no promo for infinite research, but one thing has to be said:

Guys, you are thinking too much in a (mathematical) linear way. Please consider logharithmical growths, rational polynomial growths, asympthotig approximations. A scout of +300% Offensive value must not be possible at all, although there is infinite research.

For exapmle:
Tell me, where does the series
1 - exp{ -x }  with x as the stage of upgrade (element of natural numbers)
grow to at its infinite?

posted on February 9th, 2010, 12:27 pm

yea, as already implemented, the costs wouldn't grow linear, but its much more streight forward to keep the bonuses linear, instead of the costs.

i still don't like infite upgades. it would just end in a endless research chain.. the game is about fleets, not about research we have basic economy, basic research and other basics are planned, but Fleet Operations is focused on fleets. If you should happen to have to much money, build another yard!

[mimesot]

posted on February 9th, 2010, 12:34 pm

Last edited by mimesot on February 9th, 2010, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry, guys, but i cannot stop myself from calculating  :D

Realistic coefficients for FO would be for e.g. offensive value:
1,3 - 0,3 * exp{ -0,2*x)

That function would generate following parameters:

Gain:    Total:  
+5,4%  105%
+4,5%  110%
+3,6%  114%
+3,0%  117%
+2,4%  119%
+2,0%  121%
+1,6%  123%
+1,3%  124%
+1,1%  125%
< 1 % <130%

You see, with such an upgrade formuls you can do infinite research without ever getting a +300% scout  ;) You will consider stopping researching after the 3rd or 4th grade, but if you swim in resources you have a sensible way of spending them for a 5th grade, without heavily exceeding the others reach (as adding ships enforces your strength in a linear way)


EDIT: Sorry Optec, for posting directly after you.

PS @ Optec:
It may be more strait forward to just increase the costs exponentially and make the bonuses linear, but the other way round resolves the problem *hehe*. I seldomly think about straight forward solutions to be sufficient.

Again, i do not promote the infinite research here, i just wanna state it's possible to fulfill the constraints.

posted on February 9th, 2010, 12:45 pm

uv made a very good point here mimesot, i agree with your logic

posted on February 9th, 2010, 5:29 pm

  Aaaah!  Too much Mathcraft!  Getting dizzy! 

posted on February 9th, 2010, 5:36 pm

if you have a simple constraint that binds to variables to another you can always transform one into a linear scale. what you are doing is the same as we do now, just caping as a maximum effect and therefore ending with 2 weapon upgrades.. cause i think paying 12092 tritanium for 0% (rounded) increased damage is not worth the odf

posted on February 9th, 2010, 5:59 pm

What do you mean, Optec?  That sounds like a great deal!

posted on February 9th, 2010, 7:44 pm

Optec, your solution is absolutly practical. Nevertheless i need to put in my 2 cents.

Or course yo are right, and the named function can be inverted to obtain the same price-performance-ratios.

y = a-b exp{c x} -->

x = -ln((a-y)/b)/c

But (Sorry I always need to add a "but") this fuction is not defined for all y, so you have to be careful about not crossing the asymptote. When just cutting the range from 0 to 'a' (the highest desirable bonus) into equal intercals, you again have a finite number of upgrades, not infinite, as deathincarn asked for. And for my taste this inverted function is not straight forward any more. In contrast 1-exp{-x} is the socalled natural approximation.

One thing though: Isn't it possible to unify all upgrade steps in just one odf - just having one parameter for the level of research?

posted on February 9th, 2010, 8:20 pm

yep, i prefere to keep the functions complicated, but the output simple, so the average user without higher math grades can understand "ah, the more i want, the more i pay!", but your description is completely valid of course. Similar functions are used behind the scenes in Fleet Operations in many occasions.

At the moment we still use the upgrade system of armada2, which requires a seperate ODF for each upgrade. There are ideas for additions in the future, but i would prefere adding more different research options in other sectors (like economy for example) and stay with the current military upgrades, perhaps with some race-specific changes or more creative research like adding new weapons or adding new weapon effects