Saucer Seperation for Galaxy Class

posted on December 30th, 2008, 1:35 pm

You got it! Geordi ordered a saucer separation against the echo papa 607. The reduced mass gave the stardrive section the extra maneuverability it needed to keep up with and destroy the echo papa 607. So there you have it. Separating the saucer allowed the ship to win in combat where it would have otherwise been destroyed had Geordi not ordered the separation.

Of course you don't get an increase in shield or weapon power when you saucer separate. But that's not the point. It is a purely strategic operation. The point is it distracts a single target and gives the stardrive section increased maneuverability once separated from the hefty saucer section. The stardrive section was fully ready for combat and the reduced mass made it an exceptional weapon. The saucer doesn't have any extra firepower but  it still has the primary phaser arrays and an aft torpedo launcher. Besides, two ships are always better than one in combat.

Starfleet didn't conjure up the Galaxy Class saucer of being one giant lifeboat...no, they had combat in mind as well. If separating the Galaxy in combat is so useless than the best and brightest minds of the Federation would have scrapped the project before they got off the drawing board.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 1:38 pm

Increase in maneuverability for both sections is an important factor I think. I mean the main impulse engines are located in the saucer section and what worf said about the stardrive section, "When relieved of its bulk, the enterprise becomes a formidable weapon" suggests it is more mobile, which I'm sure is true of the saucer section too.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by constellation.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 2:48 pm

from what i have read the saurcer is fully capable to fight and when both sections are seperated then they do get increased firepower due to the star drives hidden phaser bank and the saurcers hidden torpedo tube being exposed and now usbale how ever i do agree the shields would be weakened but outnumbering has more benifits than slightly lower shield strength and in times of combat non essential systems (replicators wud b limited to emergancy rations and holodecks wud b out of use) wud b taken offline to increase weapon and shield strength so there is a significant advantage to seperating (also it wud b dumb to make a large lifeboat like the saurcer that only has impulse engines to not have strong enough shields or weapons to defend its self enough to escape any way)

posted on December 30th, 2008, 4:00 pm

You end up with a section that has no warp core - thus vastly decreased energy output (say goodbye to your shield strenght and effective phaser useage) and a section that has reduced firepower, increased speed, and probably slightly increased shield strenght (smaller shield needed).

also it wud b dumb to make a large lifeboat like the saurcer that only has impulse engines to not have strong enough shields or weapons to defend its self enough to escape any way

I did not say Lifeboat - I said save the civilian population. They can leave the civilians before going into combat - not necessarily save them while already in combat. (note also that the "dumb" lifeboat idea was used in exactly that way in one of the movies)

You got it! Geordi ordered a saucer separation against the echo papa 607. The reduced mass gave the stardrive section the extra maneuverability it needed to keep up with and destroy the echo papa 607. So there you have it. Separating the saucer allowed the ship to win in combat where it would have otherwise been destroyed had Geordi not ordered the separation.

Very good! You've found an example of a situation in which a separation makes sense - a situation I already described earlier.
Note that both sections would not be more manouverable. Only one of them actually has warp capabilities - which makes the other incredibly outclassed in the speed department.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 4:36 pm

Warp capabilities are not the end all and be all of speed.

In Relcis, Geordi says the Jenolen would run circles round the enterprise at impulse speeds. And since impulse is the major speed in fleetops, it's far more important than its warp capabilities.
Just because the saucer section doesn't have a warp core doesn't cripple its impulse speeds, and without the bulk, it should be faster and more maneuverable.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 6:02 pm

When seperated, wouldn't the Shield generators need less power to cover the smaller sections? That should allow the shields to get stronger or at least stay the same as a combined ship.

I am sort of curious as to why DatonKallandor hates seperation so much.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 7:45 pm

When seperated, wouldn't the Shield generators need less power to cover the smaller sections? That should allow the shields to get stronger or at least stay the same as a combined ship.

Yes, smaller ships would need less energy to sustain shields - however, you are not doubling your energy production. You're leaving your entire power core on one half, while you leave the other half to be powered by....something unexplained (which, if it was powerful enough to give that half enough energy to power shields, speed as well as extra weapons - why didn't you use it in the first place when your ship was whole?)

In a combat situation, blasting the saucer section would be trivial compared to denting the combined ship. And by blasting this, now sadly underprotected, half of the ship, you nicely eliminate a good portion of the firepower, with far less hassle.

I am sort of curious as to why DatonKallandor hates seperation so much.

It's a completely idiotic concept when applied to combat, and that aspect was only shoehorned in to have a gimmick for one episode.
Unlike the other ludicrous concepts that are actually relevant and universe consistent. (transporters, replicators, etc.)

posted on December 30th, 2008, 10:01 pm

So you want Seperation fans to miss out just because you don't like it?

posted on December 30th, 2008, 10:22 pm

DatonKallandor, as ive asked before do you know absoulutely nothing about seperation, if you dont know what your talking about dont say anything at all, and gooogle memory alpha and look up uss promethiuses and youll see, and also look up galaxy class and find saucer seperation, it was used a bunch of times.

posted on December 30th, 2008, 10:41 pm

DatonKallandor, as ive asked before do you know absoulutely nothing about seperation, if you dont know what your talking about dont say anything at all, and gooogle memory alpha and look up uss promethiuses and youll see, and also look up galaxy class and find saucer seperation, it was used a bunch of times.

But still, he is correct with saying that the feature is totally useless in combat (if applied like in stock A2).

posted on December 30th, 2008, 11:04 pm

DatonKallandor, as ive asked before do you know absoulutely nothing about seperation, if you dont know what your talking about dont say anything at all, and gooogle memory alpha and look up uss promethiuses and youll see, and also look up galaxy class and find saucer seperation, it was used a bunch of times.

The Prometheus was DESIGNED to use its seperation as an advantage in a combat situation. That is why its warp core is made of more parts as well, so EVERY compartment would have sufficient energy to use its propulsion, weapons and shields TOGETHER.
Compare that to the Galaxy whose seperation was designed to act as an emergency EVACUATION procedure. While its stardrive section may become more maneurable it also LOOSES the main phaser arrays of the ship, thus significatly decreasing its overall firepower. The saucer section, when seperated, looses maneurability and also looses its primary power source. While it also has the fusion generators and whatnot, those are only EMERGENCY power supply, for stuff like life support, certainly not sufficient for the continous use of engines + weapons and shields. Imagine a modern hybrid auto, it has both an electric and an internal-combustion engine. The electric motor is used for support of the primary engine, thus reducing its fuel consuption and emmisions, however if you would take the primary motor away, you'd be able to use the electric motor for only a few miles with very weak acceleration and very low top speed. The situation is similar with a Galaxy, those other engines are there to support the warp core in cases of emegency, so the Galaxy could drag itself to the nearest repair facility or call for help. They are in NO WAY designed for combat situations as the power output simply isnt large enough. While you might be able to fire a couple of "sufficiently" powered phaser beams, you'd loose power for everything else soon after that.
With that said and knowing that Galaxy seperation is used to get crew to safety I must ask is there a place for this in FO? Crew is no longer a resource, so even if everyone dies on the Galaxy it doesnt matter much to you in terms of gameplay. Sorry I just dont see the neccessitiy of this being incorporated into FO gameplay atm.
However, I dont have anything against it getting in either. It would create more work for the team though. I guess it does have an appeal to it and it would add value to the game, if only superficial. But again, I dont have anything against it getting in 

posted on December 30th, 2008, 11:41 pm

the only reason the federation won the battle of wolf 359 was because of the enterprise and its capability to seperate

posted on December 30th, 2008, 11:47 pm

ok how about a primitive example in military terms splitting forces into 2 or more groups gives you great advantage (each group has lower resources and firepower but because there smaller it requires less area to defend and also each section can be left at strategic areas to compliment there strengths and weaknesses this principle can also be used for galaxy seperation using the seperation would reduced the overall fire power of each section but as stated before the sections wouldnt need to cover a full ship with shields also energy would be used in the required areas also the galaxy class was designed to be not fully built meaning that certain areas could easily be adapted so all power could b drained from there.

anyway back on point once seperated (possibly before conflict) the stardrive section could then attempt to use its greater manouverability and probably higher energy reseves as it contains the main power core and its only used to power half a ship so shields engines and weapons will have more power availble and if that fails then the enermy would still have to face the saurcer section which would still be able to have enough power to power up its shields and weapons to fight.

alternatly they could both engage in combat at the same time meaning the enemy would have to fight a galaxy with half weapons but greater shields and manuverability and a smaller ship.

posted on December 31st, 2008, 4:24 am

@DatonKallandor

Very good! You've found an example of a situation in which a separation makes sense - a situation I already described earlier.

I don't see any evidence in this thread where you described such a situation. What you said was,

I don't remember any situation in the series in which splitting up a ship suddenly allowed one side to win a battle they wouldn't have won otherwise.

I gave you an answer and you retorted with a giant pile of dookie because you don't use any canon evidence from the series in your arguments.

So far, the best you've come up with is a theory that both the stardrive and the saucer suffer a decrease in weapons and shield strength when they are separated especially the saucer because it no longer has warp power. But that's all it is, a theory.

There's nothing wrong with your theories, but they don't stand up to tests against canon evidence and now I will show you why.

You're leaving your entire power core on one half, while you leave the other half to be powered by....something unexplained

Unexplained, C'mon give me a break. Take out a recorder and record that statement, then play it back to yourself. I guarantee you will laugh at the absurdity of your own reasoning. What do you mean it's unexplained? Power generation for the Galaxy Class is clearly explained in the TNG Technical manual.

A starships warpdrive is powered by the warp core, but what about other systems aboard the ship? What about space stations that don't have warp drive? Where do they get their power from? A warp reactor? No. Do you know what fusion is? It is the fusion of hydrogen isotopes into helium thereby creating tremendous power; more power than that of a fission reaction.

According to the TNG Technical Manual,

Fusion reactors were used to power the impulse engines on Federation starships. In a Galaxy-class each impulse engine had three impulse fusion reactors to provide the power.

3 fusion reactors? Holy cow...one of these things would be enough to power the whole world if not the United States alone and the Galaxy Class has 3 of these babies per engine! Hello Captain, I don't think you have to worry about having enough power to fire phasers on the saucer with these monster power generators.

if it was powerful enough to give that half enough energy to power shields, speed as well as extra weapons - why didn't you use it in the first place when your ship was whole?

A simple answer, in fact Commander Riker stated to Commander Shelby, "we might need the extra power from the saucer's impulse engines." Therefore the Galaxy Class does have the ability to use the extra power from the saucer's impulse engines that are powered by the fusion reactors.

Even though they had that extra power available from the impulse engines, Riker ordered a saucer separation in the rescue of Captain Picard. In fact, he was counting on the fact that Locutus was aware of the strategy and would completely ignore the saucer section. Of course the plan was successful because of the ship's ability to saucer separate. Needless to say, had the ship not performed a saucer separation the plan would have failed despite having additional power from the engines in which case you could have kissed the Enterprise D and the rest of Starfleets assimilated arse goodbye.

Finally, have you ever played STTNG: A Final Unity? This game was so close to the series that some people actually considered it an episode. This games technical aspects were very well detailed especially in tactical and engineering.

In engineering, power was generated from the warp core and the fusion reactors. Most of the power from the warp core went to the warp core and a little to other ships systems. Power from the fusion reactor went to the other ships systems including phasers, torpedoes, shields, sensors, computer cores, tractor beams, and life support.

Surplus power from both reactors were fed into the EPS (electro plasma system) power grid. The power in the EPS power grid was mostlly sustained by the fusion reactors. It would still fill with power with the warp reactor offline. You didn't even need the warp reactor for combat unless you wanted to perform a warp maneuver.

So there you have it. Full explanation of why you don't need a warp core for the saucer section as it has it's own power from the impulse engines powered by the fusion reactors. Plenty of power for weapons, shields and auxiliary systems.

There is no evidence that either the stardrive or the saucer should have any less power to weapons or shields when separated. If anything, the firepower doubles thanks to the Type X phaser array on the Cobra Head of the stardrive and the additional torpedo launcher on the aft section of the saucer. Even if there were a decrease in firepower, the enemy would still need to worry about two ships instead of one.

That is the whole point to the benefit of saucer separation and it rocks and the majority of the people want to see it back in action in Fleet Operations.

posted on December 31st, 2008, 4:42 am

i agree with constelation with every word, and i advise all of you to go to memeory alpha an d look up galaxy class, as memeory alpha is the most complete database.  Long live the galaxy and long live saucer seperation, we want it in fleet ops. period(hence the period i puit before the period lol)