New Borg Low-Tech Vessel

posted on March 28th, 2010, 10:51 am

.. the "exact" position, if you wanted a specific piece.  I'm talking about randomly targeting the thing and playing 'see what comes off?' 
The comparison is not unlike, instead of using a soldering iron to burn out a resistor and overload a radio or something, just poking at the circuit board with the iron.  Something's bound to not be working as well afterwards, from my experiences anyway.

you would most likely beam out random pieces of hull. also we have never seen transporters able to beam part of something out, only the full thing. so randomly beaming like that would probably not work.

maybe instead you could beam crew into space. that would work, randomly transport lifeforms into space to lower the crew. bit evil, maybe for the dommies.

posted on March 28th, 2010, 12:39 pm

At first, sure.  Eventually, however, you'll get through that hull.  Consider the damage the Nanite cloud can do, but instead of it being just turned loose in space, it's a focused job.  Kinda like the Regen module...backwards.

This leads to one interesting question. Why can borg so easily regenerate and replicate tritanium, when it is relativly difficult to destroy them. Is the destructive beam of a phaser a less effective concept than a reverse replication. I must admit that i absolutly hate the idea of being able to replicate things to such great extend. To replicate one ton of tritanium for your hull, you need at least 1/2 ton of antimatter at ideal (unrealistic) conditions. Where should a borg ship get that from so instantly.

Well but the shields would still have to be down.

OK, then one question. The borg holding beam works with shields um, so does the assim-beam. Why do borg need to have enemy shields to  be down anyway? I believe this to be simply ignored in StarTrek Armada, and thus we could just don't care it it's realistic to transport something through shields. (You know how much i hate illogic stuff  )

lol they did that in enterprise, beam off parts of the enemy ship, it was implied there that beaming off parts is difficult unless u know the EXACT position and use of every part. as they did in that episode.

So the idea, why nanites should do the job is, that they EXACTLY specify the area of matter, which is going to be beamt over. Right?

posted on March 28th, 2010, 1:05 pm

seems rather costly to get nanites over their and have them tag matter to beam, i would just use a torpedo, no need to aim good then

posted on March 28th, 2010, 1:23 pm

Pretty damn right.

This is why i would just destroy the target and envelope it into an integrity field, as it explodes, so nothing gets blown out of range, then suck it all onto resource storage chambers. Such an intergrity field could be a fature of a new module.

posted on March 28th, 2010, 3:08 pm

If we had planets, I would have suggested letting the Cubes do what they do.  Carve the surface off it with cutting beams, tractor it up in large chunks, assimilate all lifeforms and technology on it, and render everything else down to it's component atoms for energy and raw materials.

Sure, it leaves lifeless balls of rock behind, but that's why the Planet Killer was made.  Eat the useless crap that travelling Borg leave behind as fuel for the Collective's destruction.

posted on March 29th, 2010, 3:15 am

Here is a better q so why cant a whole ship be beamed and "unreplicated" or simply converted to energy

posted on March 29th, 2010, 11:12 am

thats what phasers do

posted on March 29th, 2010, 4:36 pm

thats what phasers do

 

posted on March 29th, 2010, 8:11 pm

do phasers really convert matter to energy? or just break it down into small vapour matter?

the perfect weapon would do what the transporter does, just faster, converting matter into energy (but not back into matter again as in transportation)

the asgard could do that in sg1, thors's chariot did it to heru'ur's bases. all his bases belonged to thor. its possible thor's ship didnt use the energy, but its more likely it used the energy to continue powering the beam that was sucking up the base.

posted on March 29th, 2010, 10:35 pm

Can a more effective matter-to-energy process than the matter-antimatter-reaction be plausible in ST?

What does more effective mean? If you shoot a matter target with antimatter: 1part antimatter + 1 (exatly even) part matter = 2 parts Energy-equivalent. More effeclty means, that the ratio of initializing substance to the dissolved substance has to be < 1. If you look at a galaxy blowing holes into a borg cube you might assume that this ratio is very much smaller 1. Cubes spherical holes are about 500m in diameter, if that amout of matter was turned into pure energy, ba an annihilation process, the same amount of antimatter would have to be used. This amount is probably created by the beam, as the beam does not carry antimatter with it, and the ship could not carry enough antimatter anyway. Citing TNG:TM the Galaxy has ~1GW phaser output, a shot of one second, which thus has 1GJ has a mass equivalent of not even milligrammes, a little less than the weight of the hole in the borg cube.

So if the phasers effect is a matter-to-energy reaction it cannot origin from a matter-antimatter-reaction. It appears to be more effective than the matter-antimatter-reaction. So has to be a cathalysed reaction at the targets location.

Now what is a phaser. Its stated that its just an emisision of nadion particles. God knows what they do at the target location. But if they were more efective, why aren't they used to dissolve normal matter into energy in the warp core? Easier (every idiot can handle a small phaser) and safer than the uge tanks of highly explosive antimatter. Illogic isn't it.

From thus i suppose the nadion particles to dissolve the matter not into energy (which aside would blow up everything else in range) but to make the matter disappear from the universe - ouch, that would break the law of energy conservation, sounds bad -  make the matter be shifted into subspace.

posted on March 30th, 2010, 4:15 am

Well, considering that the Borg supposedly have effectively unlimited power (at least on a cube), but not truly infinite, I theorize any of the following...

They use a variant of the same power plant that the Romulans do (singularity with a grav/energy conversion system).

They use a Matter/Antimatter reaction, but their material technology is so much better than everyone else's that they suffer zero (or near-zero) energy wastage.

They use some kind of perfected Fusion-Fission system that has zero or near-zero loss of atomic material, letting them milk those hydrogen atoms for all they are worth.

They use some sort of zero-point energy system.

They assimilated some reality changing race in the past, and now that races ability to change reality is being used to provide the collective with power.

Or they have absurdly effective capacitors, and their energy supply is really battery power that just isn't gonna run out any time this epoch.

posted on March 30th, 2010, 9:01 am

The romulan system is highly effectly and even has some theorethically realistic background. It's advantage is, that no antimatter is needed to create energy from matter. If a cube has 1km³ of fuel with a density of lets say gold it has 20 000 000 000 000 kg fuel which leads to an energy yield of 1800 000 000 000 000 000 000 GJ. That's petty much. Considering athe phaser shots of a galaxy which are about 1GJ each you can assume that this is pretty much.

Matter-Antimatter-Reactions are per se wasteless. The energy transportation causes the loss. As the federation starships seem to have nearly no losses - otherwise it would get hot in there, perhaps several thousend °C when firing one phaser shot - it seems there can't be muc done about it. If there was half a km³ inside a cube you would have the same energy yield as in the upper case. The reason why i don't expect this is that thi  would simply be too dangerous. An exploding cobe would rup a star-system apart and voyager would have died several times.

It is exaclty known how much energy can be "sqeezed" out of the atoms in fission/fusion processes at maximum. It's insufficient compared to the former technologies.

Zero point ... well, rubbish.

I personally favour the idea that the borg ship are interonnected energy-wise, as their mind is. This would be a perfect solution as it grants next to infinite energy resources, the energy refill only dependend of the energy-transmission rate and fuel tans would have to be rather small.