Making fun of Star Wars
posted on February 20th, 2009, 2:53 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 3:00 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 3:03 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 3:36 pm
Last edited by Dircome on February 20th, 2009, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
posted on February 20th, 2009, 3:57 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 4:11 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 4:53 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 4:56 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 5:57 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 5:58 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 5:59 pm
Okay, time for the balance of power to tip a bit. Serpicus, what you are saying isn't canon to the Star Wars universe, apart from the Executor/ Death Star thing. First, the Eclipse isn't canon, and I would know since I know virtually all there is to know about both Trek and Wars. A Cube's length for each edge is about 1 km, and the interior is about 3 km^3. Now, the Dominion Battleship can rip multiple vessels apart at once, and has around 1 km^3 volume. Federation Phasers do in fact pack a punch, as the Command Cube in ST:FC was mainly taken down by them. Imps sensor arrays aren't too good, stated in I think Episode V, where the Falcon latched on to the back of the bridge for a Star Destroyer and no one could figure out where it went, while Feds have very powerful sensors at their disposal, capable of seeing a couple light years away, while Imps are restricted to radar. Fed quantums are extremely powerful, capable of blowing up huge vessels in a short amount of time, and are very long ranged. Imps are restricted to fighters and pointblank weaponry and ordinance. A Cube is several times larger then a Star Destroyer, which is a picketship by name. A cube could blow a Death Star to smithereens, provided the Death Ray (the equivalent power of a warp drive, :whistling: go figure) wasn't fired. Fighters are easily laughed off by even an Intrepid in canon, especially without shields. 
posted on February 20th, 2009, 6:28 pm
Last edited by ARES IV on February 20th, 2009, 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No. I dont speak about Omega itself.
I speak about this small little device onboard Voyager which Tuvok and Kim did create.
This little ball has enough power to vapourize a moon.
And yes, of course it should be 1 vs 1.
Still, any halfway modern Federation ship would reduce even an ISD to space dust in a rather short amount of time.
There are several reasons for that:
More firepower (I will explain later)
Much higher manueverability
Superior (sublight) speed
Much longer weapon range and most important - the sensors to use it.
Much better computers
Firepower: Let us compare the Standard Photon torpedo against the popular Proton Torpedo of StarWars.
Proton torpedos are some kind of advanced thermonuclear warheads. They are sufficient to do major damage to capital ships in reasonable numbers. On the other hand, it has been stated more than once in ST, that even a small Runabout, can withstand up to seven direct thermonuclear hits before being destroyed.
Let us now generously grant Star Wars "very advanced" warheads. Even then, at least 4 hits would be necessary to destroy a single runabout.
Normal Starfleet Ships are several times more powerful than a Runabout. In fact, a short phaser blast is enough to destroy a runabout. The power of 4 Proton Torpedos, generated in the blink of an eye of a single phaser bank (and that not from a Federation vessel, but some less developed race (some DS9 episode, dont remember the title right now)
Star Wars Turbolaser obviously are somewhere in the power realms of proton torpedos, otherwise, it would not make sense to have so many of them, when 2 are enough to destroy that Star Destroyer within 20 seconds. So they are probably arround the same level.
Photon torpedoes use antimatter warheads, something which is far more powerful than any advanced thermonuclear weapon could ever hope to achieve. If a good volley of protons is enough to bring large capital SW Starships into trouble, what do you think a full Photon salvo would do to your ohh so powerfull ISD? I tell you - Space dust.
A full Star Destroyer broadside might do some damage to the average Federation ship - but only minor one compared to the inferno Star Trek weaponary can let loose.
Weapon range: Phasers have a range of arround 300000 km. Photons some 1000000 (at impuls)
Photons can even be fired at warp speed, granting them a tremendous range in theory.
Until this slow Star Destroyed reach his weapon range, he will long be gone. Even if they jump in at short range, the superior firepower of the Federation would make this quite unhealthy.
SW fighers.... well.... one proton torpedo is enough to destroy even the powerful B-Wing, yet it takes several laser cannon shots, to destroy a fighter. (Rebels). So fighter weapons are hardly anything to worry about for Federation ships.
And then Star Trek ships have vastly superior sublight engines.
From 0 to full impulse in what? A few seconds maybe? They also have the inertial dampers to do this without being crushed. So even if a Tie Fighter could reach this speed in a reasonable amount of time, they would simple go to full stop, laughing their ass off while the fighters race ahead, unable to stop so abrupt.
A Death Star would probably give the Federation some hard thinking, yet, they should be able to defeat it with acceptable losses.
First Deathstar - Feds have good enough computers to actually send as many photons as they want into that shaft, and the sensors to find that weakness in reasonable time without having the plans. Torpedos have enough range to be fired from far away, and even if they have to be fired from within the Death Star shields, Fed ships can take enough beating to do so, before the weapon emplacement destroy them.
Second Deathstar - This one would be more tricky, the Feds would probably at first disable the superlasers through long range bombardement. While burning though to the weapon itself may need a very long time, I believe it is reasonable to suggest that continued heavy bombardent of the surface systems would make firing the lasers very dangerous for the Death Star itself. (when the laser shafts collapse partially for example - the beams might be strong enough to burn through that debris, but what about the effect that probably would have to the station? The beams could get out of the shaft and cut through the station, or could be reflected back to the emitter - a catastrophic power surge would happen - or the emitter explodes, which might lead to the same thing.
On a side note. The Scimitars shields were up, so there was only minor visible damage, because most of the energy has been drained in those.
On another side note, dont come to me with this ridicolous energy stats some sources for Star Wars state. If they really had this ammount of energy, they would not need a Death Star, a Nebulon B would be more than sufficient to do the same.
I agree. :)
EDITS: Fixed several typos and grammar errors.
I speak about this small little device onboard Voyager which Tuvok and Kim did create.
This little ball has enough power to vapourize a moon.
And yes, of course it should be 1 vs 1.
Still, any halfway modern Federation ship would reduce even an ISD to space dust in a rather short amount of time.
There are several reasons for that:
More firepower (I will explain later)
Much higher manueverability
Superior (sublight) speed
Much longer weapon range and most important - the sensors to use it.
Much better computers
Firepower: Let us compare the Standard Photon torpedo against the popular Proton Torpedo of StarWars.
Proton torpedos are some kind of advanced thermonuclear warheads. They are sufficient to do major damage to capital ships in reasonable numbers. On the other hand, it has been stated more than once in ST, that even a small Runabout, can withstand up to seven direct thermonuclear hits before being destroyed.
Let us now generously grant Star Wars "very advanced" warheads. Even then, at least 4 hits would be necessary to destroy a single runabout.
Normal Starfleet Ships are several times more powerful than a Runabout. In fact, a short phaser blast is enough to destroy a runabout. The power of 4 Proton Torpedos, generated in the blink of an eye of a single phaser bank (and that not from a Federation vessel, but some less developed race (some DS9 episode, dont remember the title right now)
Star Wars Turbolaser obviously are somewhere in the power realms of proton torpedos, otherwise, it would not make sense to have so many of them, when 2 are enough to destroy that Star Destroyer within 20 seconds. So they are probably arround the same level.
Photon torpedoes use antimatter warheads, something which is far more powerful than any advanced thermonuclear weapon could ever hope to achieve. If a good volley of protons is enough to bring large capital SW Starships into trouble, what do you think a full Photon salvo would do to your ohh so powerfull ISD? I tell you - Space dust.
A full Star Destroyer broadside might do some damage to the average Federation ship - but only minor one compared to the inferno Star Trek weaponary can let loose.
Weapon range: Phasers have a range of arround 300000 km. Photons some 1000000 (at impuls)
Photons can even be fired at warp speed, granting them a tremendous range in theory.
Until this slow Star Destroyed reach his weapon range, he will long be gone. Even if they jump in at short range, the superior firepower of the Federation would make this quite unhealthy.
SW fighers.... well.... one proton torpedo is enough to destroy even the powerful B-Wing, yet it takes several laser cannon shots, to destroy a fighter. (Rebels). So fighter weapons are hardly anything to worry about for Federation ships.
And then Star Trek ships have vastly superior sublight engines.
From 0 to full impulse in what? A few seconds maybe? They also have the inertial dampers to do this without being crushed. So even if a Tie Fighter could reach this speed in a reasonable amount of time, they would simple go to full stop, laughing their ass off while the fighters race ahead, unable to stop so abrupt.
A Death Star would probably give the Federation some hard thinking, yet, they should be able to defeat it with acceptable losses.
First Deathstar - Feds have good enough computers to actually send as many photons as they want into that shaft, and the sensors to find that weakness in reasonable time without having the plans. Torpedos have enough range to be fired from far away, and even if they have to be fired from within the Death Star shields, Fed ships can take enough beating to do so, before the weapon emplacement destroy them.
Second Deathstar - This one would be more tricky, the Feds would probably at first disable the superlasers through long range bombardement. While burning though to the weapon itself may need a very long time, I believe it is reasonable to suggest that continued heavy bombardent of the surface systems would make firing the lasers very dangerous for the Death Star itself. (when the laser shafts collapse partially for example - the beams might be strong enough to burn through that debris, but what about the effect that probably would have to the station? The beams could get out of the shaft and cut through the station, or could be reflected back to the emitter - a catastrophic power surge would happen - or the emitter explodes, which might lead to the same thing.
On a side note. The Scimitars shields were up, so there was only minor visible damage, because most of the energy has been drained in those.
On another side note, dont come to me with this ridicolous energy stats some sources for Star Wars state. If they really had this ammount of energy, they would not need a Death Star, a Nebulon B would be more than sufficient to do the same.
serpicus wrote:we're not talking about omega as fed tech.
When comparing Fed tech we need to talk about a star destroyers canons against fed phasers and photon torps.
And it isnt a fleet of fed ships vs 1 stardestroyer.
When comparing we need to look at 1 Sov vs 1 Star destroyer.
Phasers dont do shit (remember nemesis and the little phaser jabs against scimitar hulls). Torps are the only teeth that the Feds would have. Also, tie interceptors and fighters also constitute a star destroyer's arsenal. In numbers and rams they would take out the Feds.
the jems did the same to fed ships with their scarab ships.
So if it were 1 on 1 or an even fleet, star destroyers have the edge in that tactical aspect.
Add the eclipse and death star 2 to the mix, and the Feds would be vaporized.
None of this make Star Trek better than Star Wars or visa versa its just just the flavour of the universes, Star Trek = High Tech, Star Wars = Low Tech
I agree. :)
EDITS: Fixed several typos and grammar errors.
posted on February 20th, 2009, 6:35 pm
posted on February 20th, 2009, 7:06 pm
Obviously the volume of the cube would be 1km^3. I guess megaman made a mistake
posted on February 20th, 2009, 7:29 pm
You never know. 
Quantum torpedos gain their energy from 11 dimensions, so Borg might have access to some of them too. What about a living room sifted to hyperspace. 
And why, if there is a q-torpedo, doesn't every new ship have unlimited range in ST? Since Voyager I believe everything is possible in ST. 
My conclusion, give me a star destroyer to blow if off, but I don't care how strong it is.
Quantum torpedos gain their energy from 11 dimensions, so Borg might have access to some of them too. What about a living room sifted to hyperspace. And why, if there is a q-torpedo, doesn't every new ship have unlimited range in ST? Since Voyager I believe everything is possible in ST. My conclusion, give me a star destroyer to blow if off, but I don't care how strong it is.
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