I´ve got some (low priority?) suggestions to improve FleetOp

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:34 pm

Obviously you didn't see the episode where Voyager negotiated with Species 8472 after one of their Earth simulations were found.  It's near the beginning of Season 5 (episode 4 I think, forgot the name).  Species 8472 made it clear that they were only trying to defend themselves.  Since Voyager got involved, they thought that the Federation was trying to destroy their species and they thought that the Federation were allies with the Borg.  They obviously miscommunicated their intentions to Voyager and as a result, war almost broke out between the Federation and Species 8472.  Had they given their actual intentions, Voyager never would have made that alliance with the Collective.  Species 8472 never intended to destroy the galaxy, just the Borg and anyone that interfered.

The Dominion and Borg can't be in the timeline either because the Dominion are separated by 10s of thousands of light-years way out of reach of the Federation.  The Borg have presumably been destroyed and are remaining in the Delta quadrant to rebuild the collective (if they actually survived that virus).

PS:  There are ways to balance a faction that only use vessels.

The Tereanans didn't have any role in the outcome of the war between the Borg and Species 8472 and the nearest ship was over 500 light-years away on a trajectory that took it further from Voyager.  They would destroy Voyager because the Tereanans were allies with 8472 during the time that they were in the Delta Quadrant.  Voyager sided with the Borg, which were an enemy of the Tereanans (and still are).  By siding with the Borg, Voyager would have also been the enemy.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:40 pm

about 8472's intentions, in scorpion they made them clear in words: "your galaxy will be purged". no two ways about that, the borg may have been the aggressors, but 8472 were looking to kick some serious bottom in our galaxy, more than defending themselves for sure, they wanted to go on the offensive. voyager got them to talk after sending them scurrying away with their tail between their legs with their super torps.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 7:31 pm

Which led them to build the Earth simulation because they thought that the Federation is a hostile force out to destroy their species, just like the Borg.  Whether or not there was a miscommunication is for the individual viewers to decide.  The point is that a year later, they said that they were only trying to defend themselves.  There simulation was a training center so that Species 8472 could put operatives in the Federation to keep the Federation under surveillance without the Federation knowing about it.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 7:34 pm

there was no miscommunication, they were invading and explicitly told people "your galaxy will be purged" then later on they didnt retract that statement when janeway challenged them, they admitted it, they werent misheard, they intended to purge the galaxy of life. their defending themselves claim doesnt hold water when they threaten to purge a galaxy. thats partly because the writing quality isnt very good, the portrayal of 8472 changed between episodes.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 7:36 pm

The first encounter left no potential debate. Lines like "Your Galaxy will be purged" and "The weak shall perish" when spoken by a Xenophobic race determined to cleanse 'impure' races doesn't leave any.

The second time (training to invade Earth) was that xenophobia making them jump to conclusions about the Federation, even if it was an understandable mistake after Voyager helped the Borg.

Ninja'd

posted on April 19th, 2011, 7:41 pm

@8472: aye i don't think the average defender toasts planets

@FOStory: We are currently working on new features, including more of the FO storyline in multiplayer. That might fill in the missing gaps.

@Your Ideas: There are some good points on your posts. noted down the ideas some of your requests are actually on todo - or at least something similar

[Tok`ra]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 9:40 pm

Last edited by Tok`ra on April 19th, 2011, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

- The Prometheus could be a warp in experimental ship like the descent class, as a randomly chosen alternative. But the Prometheus should not be the overpowered godlike ship, which many people have in mind. It is just a cool looking ship with a balanced special ability to increase it´s firepower.

For some reason that keeps being refused, but yeah I think it would be awsome.

- The Danube could be a scout ship with slightly different stats for one of both federation avatars.

Im pretty sure that the venture is supposed to be a lot newer than the danube. The Danube runabout is basicly just a shuttle capable of semi-independent operations.

That said being able to get a scout with heavier weapons for shorter sensor range and no cloak detect could be an intersting option, but I'd rather the feds (and the rest of the races really) got balanced better before that were even considerd. That said since all of the klink ships from the starbase to the Negvar are using MICRO photons, prehaps give the regular photons to the runabout ? Would make as much sense as it currently does :p .

- There are so many ways to implement the Sovereigns Class with Nemesis refit into the game - mixedtech, avatars, default upgrade, experience level - your mod offers many possibilities.

Define nemesis refit prehaps ?

- It would be cool to have a special ability button for the Intrepid Class and klingon bird of prey ships in order to move their nacelles/wings. Even if there is no tactical use for them in the game, it would drastically increase Trek atmosphere.

It'd also add lag too I bet, tho it'd be hilarious, and a good way to cause people to mistake kvorts for brels (since, at least in TNG/DS9 they are the same model, just with the size changed). It'd be neat to have brel/intrepid get to have nacelles/wings up for a speed boost in return for reduced rate of fire, damage, shield regen rate, but overall not too useful. Kvorts should never move their wings, they'd look too much like the BoP then.

- I am strongly convinced, that the Norway class is a carrier for the peregrine raiders. just look at the Star Trek FactFiles, as much as I remember, it can hold up to 20 shuttles and the whole backside of the ship is a hangar.
Or just look right here: Norway class - Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki
Maybe you would consider it to switch the Norway class SOD with Risners Phalanx class.

That would make sense if only because the avalon model is so fugly (why does it have a phaser cannon lol), but unfortunitly there is a great hatred for having ships fit in how they should in trek, on the forums at least (if you get in MP you're hear the opposite, and great mocking of the way things were done).

- If you ever consider to rework the Klingons, they should play more like real warriors (slow repairs, cheap new ships, honor as a global experience system), because klingons like to die in battle to join their ancestors in Sto´vo´kor

Klinks need rework yes, however if their ships are too cheap they'll become the unbeatable race that the federation is currently (since you're new, fly a monsoon class near a starbase, you'll see what I mean :p ). the way its done now, klink ships have extra offense at the expense of defence, the glass cannon syndrome, works good at that.

- Borg Spheres may also improve in style with upgradeable tactical armor.

may be intersting, but only if you have to choose between regenerate and armor. Personaly I dont think it'd work. Besides Borg are getting a total re-work for the next verison, so not much of a point in discussing them til that is out.

- I would like to see the return of the fusion cube (Limited by officers/credits/vinculi, or whatever, to one ship at a time). But it should look like one complete ship, not that stupid rhobus cube from Armada 2.

Fusion cube was retarded, flops is going for REAL cubes instead. Also if you check out the guide, the command cube will return eventualy.

- With the exception of mining stations and shipyards, the borg stations could be combined to one single modular unicomplex.

Ive long thought this would be a good idea, make the addons weaker than the 'starbase' in the center, so poping the addons is a valid tactic prehaps too.

- The avatars should really be replaced with more recognizeable Trek characters.
I know, you guys wrote your own campaign story which you obviously care much about. But every one else does not know it yet, so there is no identification with the characters. I am sorry that I have a problem with that, but as a Star Trek game, it should be enriched with characters from the series.
Admiral Risner, Mayson, etc. can still return with their friends and enemies in your Campaign, when you release it.

I dobut this will ever happen, the mod revolves arround THEIR characthers and timeline.

And it beats the cannon timeline, what with that stupidity from star trek online, nemesis, enterprise, plus Jar Jar Abrams filth...

E.g. the avatars could be like that (including possible third avatars):
- Federation: Janeway, Ross, Section 31(Risner)
- Klingon: Martok, House of Duras (Toral), TaQ´roja (or some Female Klingon)
- Romulans: Sela(TalShiar), Donatra, Remans
- Dominion: Weyoun, Breen, Cardassians
- Borg: Queen(Perfection), Locutus(Adaption), Collective(Assimilation)

Yeah.... a lot of this has allready been suggested. Section 31 is one of the more popular fed ones as an example, oh and sela was never Tal'Shiar, besides (since you started citing memory beta) sela is dead :p

Of course those "cosmetical" featres should not be high priority, but if you consider at least some of them, I would very much apprechiate it. As well as any other Star Trek fan, who most of us FleetOps players are, I guess.

fleet ops really tends to ignore trek were it's easier to do so.

i think you are talking about the avalon, thats risners carrier, the phalanx is a battleship.

tha avalon does look bigger than a norway.

But the avalon and phalanx models BOTH have a phaser cannon!

How can an aircraft carrier-sized ship be too small to be considered a carrier?  An Intrepid can be refitted into a very efficient carrier without needing to increase it's size.  The Norway is big enough to be a carrier.

Intrepid's hanger bay door isnt even big enough for the delta flyer, not that that stopped the Voyager production staff from making the hanger a differnt size every other episode....

The fusion cube was the most illogical vessel in the Armada series and should not be implemented in any way.

I dont think even myles will argue.

  And they should do away with the stations and have vessels to take their place.  The Borg only had two types of stations.  The central unicomplex, and 6 transwarp hubs (make that 5 because the Federation destroyed one of them).

Hmm that could be intersting, make the borg semi more like 8472 in vanilla armada.... it would certainly make their gameplay more intersting, however their starbase would have to have a drawback to moving, or else you could just move it into someones base/expansion.

I'm opposed to avatars as they are the secondary reason for the game being unbalanced.

Not true, avatars are not part of the problem.

  The primary reason is redundant passives making counters impossible.

Oh I dunno monsoons counter starbases quite nicely since starbases cant hurt them much.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 9:44 pm

That's not a phaser cannon, it's what fires the fighters at the enemy.

[Tok`ra]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 9:50 pm

Last edited by Tok`ra on April 19th, 2011, 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's not a phaser cannon, it's what fires the fighters at the enemy.

IRL LOLING

no point for hangars on a norway (in game) as fighters are risner and norways are gayson.

Give Norway 2 fighters, and vastly increase the time between launches when the fighter is destroyed (say, 3ish times as long ?)

there was no miscommunication, they were invading and explicitly told people "your galaxy will be purged" then later on they didnt retract that statement when janeway challenged them, they admitted it, they werent misheard, they intended to purge the galaxy of life. their defending themselves claim doesnt hold water when they threaten to purge a galaxy. thats partly because the writing quality isnt very good, the portrayal of 8472 changed between episodes.

Agreed, the problem was the sub-par writing in voyager mostly.

However far as I can tell fluidic space was pretty isolated, 8472 likely just didnt know that there WAS any differnce between the borg and anything else in out galaxy, then later on they talk with the voyager crew and realize what happend.

Yeah, it fits, but messily, cause voyagers writers sucked.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 9:55 pm

Give Norway 2 fighters, and vastly increase the time between launches when the fighter is destroyed (say, 3ish times as long ?)

no

posted on April 19th, 2011, 9:57 pm

no

Astute and logical argument as always myles! 

posted on April 19th, 2011, 10:02 pm

Astute and logical argument as always myles! 

when i first read your suggestion it looked like that question mark was outside the parentheses and you were asking a question, which i answered no.

as its not a question: i think the idea is silly, you quite correctly pointed out that voyager's makers got it wrong by having the shuttlebays get bigger and bigger (delta flyer not fitting yadda yadda) so where is the norway gonna get space to launch these fighters that are at least as big (probably bigger, at least in wingspan) as a danube class runabout? voyager couldnt fit runabouts, the enterprise D could carry some if necessary, but they didnt have the facilities for permanent use of such large secondary craft, they only usually took them from A to B as a delivery service. it takes a carrier to deploy such large fighters. all ships can launch some shuttles, but they die like lemmings.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 10:07 pm

Norway is fairly large, and could store a couple of them, and if they die they would need replacing, which is simulated by the time between fighte death/replacement, same as with the avalons, and the Norway just takes longer to replace the lost fighters.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 10:11 pm

Norway is fairly large

since when? its flat as a pancake and not very big in other dimensions.

heres a (canon) graphic showing it to be far smaller than a galaxy (which cant operate fighters) and has a main hull (its saucer) about the same size as an excel 1's saucer

[Tyler]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 10:13 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 19th, 2011, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Half of the ship, the entire back half, is the pylons and nacelles.